Wembanana drops 38 and 10 on 15-26 shooting

[vcsgrizzfan]

Funny how bush and grizz will argue to their graves that Big Man Defense is significantly more Valuable than perimeter Defense when it comes to Bill Russell; however when it comes to the impact Varejao and Wallace had in 2009 (vs. 2008) they are quick to dismiss that impact and INSTEAD want to credit the perimeter Defense of LeCommie as the biggest contributor to the Cavs' Defensive improvement in 2009.

You guys need to get yer stories straight, I tell ya.

The numbers don't lie in either case. Russell is the greatest defender (relative to era) by an absolute country mile. And the numbers say that LeBron had a bigger impact on the defensive side in 2009 than they did.

We are the ones who just look at the data and go where it leads. You go where your biases lead.

[Bush4Ever.]

We're talking 2008 vs. 2009, not +/- in 2009 (which is a highly flawed stat anyway).

It's literally impossible to be the primary cause for a major defensive bump when you are barely moving the needle positively compared to whatever combinations of players are playing when you are on the bench.

Literally everyone sees it (and saw it...for some coincidental reason he went from a non-award winner on D to first team all-defense that year) but you.

[Bush4Ever.]

Funny how bush and grizz will argue to their graves that Big Man Defense is significantly more Valuable than perimeter Defense when it comes to Bill Russell; however when it comes to the impact Varejao and Wallace had in 2009 (vs. 2008) they are quick to dismiss that impact and INSTEAD want to credit the perimeter Defense of LeCommie as the biggest contributor to the Cavs' Defensive improvement in 2009.

You guys need to get yer stories straight, I tell ya.

It's not that hard to understand, you are being dumb (or trolling).

A 90th percentile (among bigs) big defender will generally provide more impact than a 90th percentile wing and certainly point defensive player.

No, a 10th percentile defensive big doesn't provide as much impact as a 99th percentile wing defensive player, etc...

When comparing LIKE groups (percentile-wise), bigs > wings for defensive impact as a general rule.

Lebron in 2009 was better than Varejao in 2009, and probably about the same as Wallace in terms of per-possession impact, but playing more than 50 percent more minutes, which leads to more overall impact

[vcsgrizzfan]

Funny how bush and grizz will argue to their graves that Big Man Defense is significantly more Valuable than perimeter Defense when it comes to Bill Russell; however when it comes to the impact Varejao and Wallace had in 2009 (vs. 2008) they are quick to dismiss that impact and INSTEAD want to credit the perimeter Defense of LeCommie as the biggest contributor to the Cavs' Defensive improvement in 2009.

You guys need to get yer stories straight, I tell ya.

It's not that hard to understand, you are being dumb (or trolling).

A 90th percentile (among bigs) big defender will generally provide more impact than a 90th percentile wing and certainly point defensive player.

No, a 10th percentile defensive big doesn't provide as much impact as a 99th percentile wing defensive player, etc...

When comparing LIKE groups (percentile-wise), bigs > wings for defensive impact as a general rule.

Lebron in 2009 was better than Varejao in 2009, and probably about the same as Wallace in terms of per-possession impact, but playing more than 50 percent more minutes, which leads to more overall impact

It's dumb and hugely cognitively biased. He is like Artie. The only time they are "trolling" is when they get their asses absolutely handed to them and they use it as a way out.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Funny how bush and grizz will argue to their graves that Big Man Defense is significantly more Valuable than perimeter Defense when it comes to Bill Russell; however when it comes to the impact Varejao and Wallace had in 2009 (vs. 2008) they are quick to dismiss that impact and INSTEAD want to credit the perimeter Defense of LeCommie as the biggest contributor to the Cavs' Defensive improvement in 2009.

You guys need to get yer stories straight, I tell ya.

It's not that hard to understand, you are being dumb (or trolling).

A 90th percentile (among bigs) big defender will generally provide more impact than a 90th percentile wing and certainly point defensive player.

No, a 10th percentile defensive big doesn't provide as much impact as a 99th percentile wing defensive player, etc...

When comparing LIKE groups (percentile-wise), bigs > wings for defensive impact as a general rule.

Lebron in 2009 was better than Varejao in 2009, and probably about the same as Wallace in terms of per-possession impact, but playing more than 50 percent more minutes, which leads to more overall impact

2009 LeCommie was better Defensively (than he was in 2008) "because of" the presence of Varejao for the entire season (and Wallace for two-thirds of the season).

[thedangerouskitchen]

"When it comes to Defense, Bill Russell is the only Big Man who impacted the game more than perimeter defenders while LeCommie is the only perimeter Defender to impact the game more than his TWO elite Big Man defenders."

Signed,
Bush and grizz

[vcsgrizzfan]

"When it comes to Defense, Bill Russell is the only Big Man who impacted the game more than perimeter defenders while LeCommie is the only perimeter Defender to impact the game more than his TWO elite Big Man defenders."

Signed,
Bush and grizz

I was going to say "now, you're just an idiot". But the truth is, you've been an idiot the entire thread. You have no interest in an intelligent debate. Truth is, you aren't capable of an intelligent debate because your cognitive biases are so extreme. You simply don't care where the data leads if it doesn't lead to confirming your bias.

[thedangerouskitchen]

"When it comes to Defense, Bill Russell is the only Big Man who impacted the game more than perimeter defenders while LeCommie is the only perimeter Defender to impact the game more than his TWO elite Big Man defenders."

Signed,
Bush and grizz

I was going to say "now, you're just an idiot". But the truth is, you've been an idiot the entire thread. You have no interest in an intelligent debate. Truth is, you aren't capable of an intelligent debate because your cognitive biases are so extreme. You simply don't care where the data leads if it doesn't lead to confirming your bias.

Sorry meatball but you're the main guy on this board preaching about how much more valuable elite Big Man Defense is YET you're now going to sit there and pretend that LeCommie's 2009 (perimeter) Defense was more valuable than the elite Big Man Defense of Andy and Wallace.

You're the idiot, and you're mad because you're being exposed as such.

Fact.

[vcsgrizzfan]

"When it comes to Defense, Bill Russell is the only Big Man who impacted the game more than perimeter defenders while LeCommie is the only perimeter Defender to impact the game more than his TWO elite Big Man defenders."

Signed,
Bush and grizz

I was going to say "now, you're just an idiot". But the truth is, you've been an idiot the entire thread. You have no interest in an intelligent debate. Truth is, you aren't capable of an intelligent debate because your cognitive biases are so extreme. You simply don't care where the data leads if it doesn't lead to confirming your bias.

Sorry meatball but you're the main guy on this board preaching about how much more valuable elite Big Man Defense is YET you're now going to sit there and pretend that LeCommie's 2009 (perimeter) Defense was more valuable than the elite Big Man Defense of Andy and Wallace.

You're the idiot, and you're mad because you're being exposed as such.

Fact.

What does the data say TDK? It says LeBron had a far bigger impact that Andy on the defensive end. Per minute and overall. It's not even remotely close. Period. No ifs, buts or maybes about it. We walked you through that.

With respect to Ben, he had a "slightly" higher impact per minute, but a much larger impact overall because he played way more minutes. Again, just data. Not opinion. Cold, hard data. He was 2nd in DPOY behind Dwight, second highest defensive win share in the NBA that season etc. These are just cold hard facts with no opinion.

You don't like those facts because they run counter to your biases. THAT, is a fact too.

You aren't very bright TDK. We expose your biases and horrible arguments over and over again. You won't ever get it. Arguing with you is like arguing with Artie. You're both morons who think they are the smart guy in the room. And we're guilty because we keep engaging you, thinking somehow you will actually succumb to reason when we definitely should know better.

[Uncontroversial]

[thedangerouskitchen]

I was going to say "now, you're just an idiot". But the truth is, you've been an idiot the entire thread. You have no interest in an intelligent debate. Truth is, you aren't capable of an intelligent debate because your cognitive biases are so extreme. You simply don't care where the data leads if it doesn't lead to confirming your bias.

Sorry meatball but you're the main guy on this board preaching about how much more valuable elite Big Man Defense is YET you're now going to sit there and pretend that LeCommie's 2009 (perimeter) Defense was more valuable than the elite Big Man Defense of Andy and Wallace.

You're the idiot, and you're mad because you're being exposed as such.

Fact.

What does the data say TDK? It says LeBron had a far bigger impact that Andy on the defensive end. Per minute and overall. It's not even remotely close. Period. No ifs, buts or maybes about it. We walked you through that.

With respect to Ben, he had a "slightly" higher impact per minute, but a much larger impact overall because he played way more minutes. Again, just data. Not opinion. Cold, hard data. He was 2nd in DPOY behind Dwight, second highest defensive win share in the NBA that season etc. These are just cold hard facts with no opinion.

You don't like those facts because they run counter to your biases. THAT, is a fact too.

You aren't very bright TDK. We expose your biases and horrible arguments over and over again. You won't ever get it. Arguing with you is like arguing with Artie. You're both morons who think they are the smart guy in the room. And we're guilty because we keep engaging you, thinking somehow you will actually succumb to reason when we definitely should know better.

Then YOU should admit that you were wrong for claiming Big Man Defense is more impactful than perimeter Defense... and based on what "data", the HIGHLY flawed +/-?



Pippen was VASTLY superior to LeCommie Defensively yet you would regularly dismiss his impact vs. elite Big Man Defenders. Now suddenly you're claiming LeCommie's perimeter Defense was more impactful than his TWO elite Big Man teammates.



You can't have it both ways, meatball.

[Alex_Murphy]

Wembanana?

[Y2K]

3rd highest Spurs rookie point total ever - DRob had 41 & 39pt games. Granted he was already 24 when he scored those highs, but still.

How was he a 24 year old rookie?

Military obligations.