Backpick all time rankings..

[vcsgrizzfan]

I just feel sad for anyone (Griff and TDK included) who have so much of their ego wrapped into something so unimportant. It's interesting and thoughtful analysis. That's all. Not something to be feared and rejected out of hand because certain results are different from what you want and because you place far too much importance in the actual result.

[Y2K]

Earlier in the thread I was asked to list my rankings for the remaining players. I missed on the last 2 picks. From this point, I'll probably go:

6. Hakeem
5. Shaq
4. LeBron
3. Kareem
2. Russell
1. Jordan

[thedangerouskitchen]

I like how TDK's rebuttals always amount to a grown man's version of a valley girl going "umm...hello...like OMG as ifffff!".

It was suggested that TDK read the scouting reports... and after doing just that I will say the actual player analysis is excellent; however it's even more obvious that many of the rankings are a joke AND the criteria used is an even bigger joke.

That said, the real question here is why are you (and a few others) sooooo clearly butt-hurt over the fact that not everyone believes this list is gospel?

Did you play a role in constructing the rankings? Did you consult with "Ben" and encourage him to use box score +/- metrics, and as such you're now a bit defensive because his bush-league criteria ranks CP3 over Scottie Pippen, KG ahead of Magic and Bird, Artis freakin' Gilmore #36 all-time based only on his NBA career, etc., etc., etc?

Seriously, you can't possibly be dumb enough to agree with all the rankings and all the reasoning behind it... or can you?

[thedangerouskitchen]

I like how TDK's rebuttals always amount to a grown man's version of a valley girl going "umm...hello...like OMG as ifffff!".

And they are completely unnecessary seeing that Ben explained everything that he was doing before he ever started his project.

I stated from the outset the list is a joke because the criteria is a joke, but you, bush-league and meatball grizz took offense.

[Bush4Ever35]

I like how TDK's rebuttals always amount to a grown man's version of a valley girl going "umm...hello...like OMG as ifffff!".

It was suggested that TDK read the scouting reports... and after doing just that I will say the actual player analysis is excellent; however it's even more obvious that many of the rankings are a joke AND the criteria used is an even bigger joke.

That said, the real question here is why are you (and a few others) sooooo clearly butt-hurt over the fact that not everyone believes this list is gospel?

Did you play a role in constructing the rankings? Did you consult with "Ben" and encourage him to use box score +/- metrics, and as such you're now a bit defensive because his bush-league criteria ranks CP3 over Scottie Pippen, KG ahead of Magic and Bird, Artis freakin' Gilmore #36 all-time based only on his NBA career, etc., etc., etc?

Seriously, you can't possibly be dumb enough to agree with all the rankings and all the reasoning behind it... or can you?

Thank you for proving my point.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I just feel sad for anyone (Griff and TDK included) who have so much of their ego wrapped into something so unimportant. It's interesting and thoughtful analysis. That's all. Not something to be feared and rejected out of hand because certain results are different from what you want and because you place far too much importance in the actual result.

First off, no one cares what you feel, meatball.



That said, this list is one person's opinion based on questionable critieria... and AS SUCH it is subject to criticism.

Case-closed.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I like how TDK's rebuttals always amount to a grown man's version of a valley girl going "umm...hello...like OMG as ifffff!".

It was suggested that TDK read the scouting reports... and after doing just that I will say the actual player analysis is excellent; however it's even more obvious that many of the rankings are a joke AND the criteria used is an even bigger joke.

That said, the real question here is why are you (and a few others) sooooo clearly butt-hurt over the fact that not everyone believes this list is gospel?

Did you play a role in constructing the rankings? Did you consult with "Ben" and encourage him to use box score +/- metrics, and as such you're now a bit defensive because his bush-league criteria ranks CP3 over Scottie Pippen, KG ahead of Magic and Bird, Artis freakin' Gilmore #36 all-time based only on his NBA career, etc., etc., etc?

Seriously, you can't possibly be dumb enough to agree with all the rankings and all the reasoning behind it... or can you?

Thank you for proving my point.

You have no point bush-league... anyone who goes to such effort to put out a list with the rankings as such (using the criteria as such) deserves to have it critiqued.

Again... why does that bother you?

Do you really agree that "NBA" Artis Gilmore is the 36th best player ever? If not, then why are you so afraid to speak up about it?

Speak your mind... don't be a little pussy and give "Ben" brownie points for his efforts.

Geez...

[lettherebehouse]

Bush got his microscopic penis folded in half by TDGAY ITT, IMHO.

[Bush4Ever35]

You have no point bush-league... anyone who goes to such effort to put out a list with the rankings as such (using the criteria as such) deserves to have it critiqued.

Again... why does that bother you?

Do you really agree that "NBA" Artis Gilmore is the 36th best player ever? If not, then why are you so afraid to speak up about it?

Speak your mind... don't be a little pussy and give "Ben" brownie points for his efforts.

Geez...

My point is that at this point in the thread you are basically a monkey in a zoo, flinging shit all over-the-place and hoping something sticks.

The board points and laughs at you for behaving that way, which you do because you are perpetually lonely and unsatisfied with your mediocre personal life.

I await your next poo-flinging response. I think you are due to use the ass-kicking and "mouse ROTFLMAO" emojis any time now...

[Bush4Ever35]

Incidentally, the Hakeem is up (6th pick).

http://www.backpicks.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thedangerouskitchen]

You have no point bush-league... anyone who goes to such effort to put out a list with the rankings as such (using the criteria as such) deserves to have it critiqued.

Again... why does that bother you?

Do you really agree that "NBA" Artis Gilmore is the 36th best player ever? If not, then why are you so afraid to speak up about it?

Speak your mind... don't be a little pussy and give "Ben" brownie points for his efforts.

Geez...

My point is that at this point in the thread you are basically a monkey in a zoo, flinging shit all over-the-place and hoping something sticks.

The board points and laughs at you for behaving that way, which you do because you are perpetually lonely and unsatisfied with your mediocre personal life.

I await your next poo-flinging response. I think you are due to use the ass-kicking and "mouse ROTFLMAO" emojis any time now...

Translation: I really do agree with TDK that many of the rankings are a joke AND the criteria is bush-league, but I'm too much of a little bitch to speak my mind about it because I might not look good to the other "smart and thoughtful" posters... so instead I'll deflect and hope that no one notices.

[Bush4Ever35]

Translation: I really do agree with TDK that many of the rankings are a joke AND the criteria is bush-league, but I'm too much of a little bitch to speak my mind about it because I might not look good to the other "smart and thoughtful" posters... so instead I'll deflect and hope that no one notices.

Social pressure only works when the person doing the pressuring is popular and/or respected.

Bullying only works when the person doing the bullying is *actually* tough (not "behind a computer tough").

Both of those things sort of lose their power when the acting agent is a life loser, unwanted, and weak.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Translation: I really do agree with TDK that many of the rankings are a joke AND the criteria is bush-league, but I'm too much of a little bitch to speak my mind about it because I might not look good to the other "smart and thoughtful" posters... so instead I'll deflect and hope that no one notices.

Social pressure only works when the person doing the pressuring is popular and/or respected.

Bullying only works when the person doing the bullying is *actually* tough (not "behind a computer tough").

Both of those things sort of lose their power when the active agent is a life loser, unwanted, and weak.

No one asked for a lecture, professor... just stop being a little bitch and give your honest assessment of the rankings / criteria used OR keep quiet and go sit in the corner while those of us who actually have the stones to speak our mind do exactly that.

Deal?

[Bush4Ever35]

What did everyone think about the write-up for Hakeem?

To me, no great surprises in the scouting report.

I'm glad he highlighted Hakeem's ability to make his double-teams "tax-free" (his term---Kenny Smith also has said this on Inside the NBA...Hakeem being able to get out in space and double *and then* get back to his guy with no penalty). That's a huge boon, and might be even more valuable today than in the 80s/90s.

I also wasn't aware that his personal offense and offensive impact actually improved in the postseasons. I knew about his title-winning postseasons of course, but I didn't know that effect extended to other years and was the rule rather than the exception.

That Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan/KG cluster is tight as hell though. That's a hard group to untangle, and I think he's done a great job so far.

[Y2K]

What did everyone think about the write-up for Hakeem?

To me, no great surprises in the scouting report.

I'm glad he highlighted Hakeem's ability to make his double-teams "tax-free" (his term---Kenny Smith also has said this on Inside the NBA...Hakeem being able to get out in space and double *and then* get back to his guy with no penalty). That's a huge boon, and might be even more valuable today than in the 80s/90s.

I also wasn't aware that his personal offense and offensive impact actually improved in the postseasons. I knew about his title-winning postseasons of course, but I didn't know that effect extended to other years and was the rule rather than the exception.

That Shaq/Hakeem/Duncan/KG cluster is tight as hell though. That's a hard group to untangle, and I think he's done a great job so far.

As a huge follower/fan of Hakeem Olajuwon, it's good to see this well-written analysis bring light on his career in totality and show others just how impactful he was on the court, even when they weren't very good as a team.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Over time, I've gotten to appreciate Hakeem more. I used to be more dismissive because of his lack of team success earlier in his career.

Another great example of how difficult it is to make chicken salad out of chicken feathers. I always gave KG a bigger pass for that. The tomato cans he was forced to spend most of his career with is almost criminal. One of the things I really appreciate about his analysis is how he teases that out and both Hakeem and KG get underappreciated because of poor supporting casts.

[Y2K]

Over time, I've gotten to appreciate Hakeem more. I used to be more dismissive because of his lack of team success earlier in his career.

Another great example of how difficult it is to make chicken salad out of chicken feathers. I always gave KG a bigger pass for that. The tomato cans he was forced to spend most of his career with is almost criminal. One of the things I really appreciate about his analysis is how he teases that out and both Hakeem and KG get underappreciated because of poor supporting casts.

Welcome aboard. I've been keeping a seat warm for you.

[Bush4Ever35]

It's kind of funny...

In my professional life I'm knee-deep in math/stats and causal inference, and controlling for variables, isolating cause and effect, temporal effects, blah blah blah.

But even as well-versed as I am in those things, "barbershop analysis" from when I was learning basketball and growing up kind of pulled me back in that direction and caused me to disregard things I knew in my head. At least to some degree.

One cool thing about the analytics movement and especially a project like this is that it's given me the courage to analyze basketball like I would analyze any other system without worrying about being out of the conversation or being mocked for standing out in my methodology, etc...

[Sudanese Sensation]

Shaq Diesel is in the top five. I'm glad to see The Big Fella get his due.

Back in the day when Shaq caught the ball in the post you had time to look at your buddy and say "Here it comes."

[lettherebehouse]

It's kind of funny...

In my professional life I'm knee-deep in math/stats and causal inference, and controlling for variables, isolating cause and effect, temporal effects, blah blah blah.

But even as well-versed as I am in those things, "barbershop analysis" from when I was learning basketball and growing up kind of pulled me back in that direction and caused me to disregard things I knew in my head. At least to some degree.

One cool thing about the analytics movement and especially a project like this is that it's given me the courage to analyze basketball like I would analyze any other system without worrying about being out of the conversation or being mocked for standing out in my methodology, etc...

Cosign on all points