Robceltsfan wrote:Kobe doesn't belong at the top of any list OTHER THAN most missed FGs for a career.
But I don't blame Griff for trying to push the Kobe agenda....it's the only topic he's any good at.
theres only one guy that can blow out a championship caliber team by himself
even jordan never scored more than 61 through 4 quarters
kobe did 62 through 3 quarters beat the mavs 1 on 12
i'm sorry but nobody else can do this not named wilt
Just stop, Griff. Nobody cares about Kobe's chucking except Kobe Kids. His chucking LOST them more games than it ever won. That's statistical fact. The more Kobe shot....the more the Lakers lost.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
FPL wrote:Griff - You think accolades aside, Hakeem is the best center ever?
I might agree
the eye test tells me hakeems the best center
however it also tells me that kobe at his best is the most dangerous player ever... so i dunno how much my opinion would be valued by anyone else here. but theres only one guy not 7 feet tall that can destroy a team single handedly
How many rings do Kobe and Hakeem win if they come up and play together?
hakeem is so selfless and encouraging that he wouldn't interfere with kobes development or try to hold him down like shaq did around 2003 and 2004
kobe can score 30 and not inhibit a big mans output either
it would basically be like if kobe and shaq co existed. so 6-7 titles minimum
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
Robceltsfan wrote:Kobe doesn't belong at the top of any list OTHER THAN most missed FGs for a career.
But I don't blame Griff for trying to push the Kobe agenda....it's the only topic he's any good at.
theres only one guy that can blow out a championship caliber team by himself
even jordan never scored more than 61 through 4 quarters
kobe did 62 through 3 quarters beat the mavs 1 on 12
i'm sorry but nobody else can do this not named wilt
Just stop, Griff. Nobody cares about Kobe's chucking except Kobe Kids. His chucking LOST them more games than it ever won. That's statistical fact. The more Kobe shot....the more the Lakers lost.
do you seriously want another thread where i copy and paste our past kobe/bird convos and everyone comes in saying "rob got stretched" every 2 seconds
cause its happened 2-3 times already this year and we're only in march
why invite the agony and embarrassment?
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
theres only one guy that can blow out a championship caliber team by himself
even jordan never scored more than 61 through 4 quarters
kobe did 62 through 3 quarters beat the mavs 1 on 12
i'm sorry but nobody else can do this not named wilt
Just stop, Griff. Nobody cares about Kobe's chucking except Kobe Kids. His chucking LOST them more games than it ever won. That's statistical fact. The more Kobe shot....the more the Lakers lost.
do you seriously want another thread where i copy and paste our past kobe/bird convos and everyone comes in saying "rob got stretched" every 2 seconds
cause its happened 2-3 times already this year and we're only in march
why invite the agony and embarrassment?
You only posted his highest scoring...most efficient games. He has TONS of inefficient chuckfests that resulted in losses.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
the worst part about rob is even when i give credit to bird and have him 3rd all time on my eye test top 10 he's still butthurt about kobe somehow
it wrecks him that kobe has a higher career point per shot output and robs entire existence is based on propping up birds efficiency and trashing kobes inefficiency
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
Lamelo_Ball wrote:the worst part about rob is even when i give credit to bird and have him 3rd all time on my eye test top 10 he's still butthurt about kobe somehow
it wrecks him that kobe has a higher career point per shot output and robs entire existence is based on propping up birds efficiency and trashing kobes inefficiency
I don't rank Bird that high either, moron. I'm not a dumb, blind homer like you.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
Lamelo_Ball wrote:the worst part about rob is even when i give credit to bird and have him 3rd all time on my eye test top 10 he's still butthurt about kobe somehow
it wrecks him that kobe has a higher career point per shot output and robs entire existence is based on propping up birds efficiency and trashing kobes inefficiency
I don't rank Bird that high either, moron. I'm not a dumb, blind homer like you.
kobe and bird are top 3 skilled/alpha/top dog/killers ever right with MJ
its a different mentality/presence that strikes fear into opponents. they "never let you off the hook" as jim jackson would say
its a different breed of cat... i'd say you can count on one hand the number of guys like them. jerry west probly goes down as one of them if boston didn't rig an entire decade in their favor. his finals losses hide the fact that he was a cold blooded killer with extreme focus and talent
People who champion the eye test to the near exclusion (total exclusion?) of every other methodology do so because they are unintelligent and aren't *capable* of having higher level statistical or methodological discussions, or anything with real rigor to it.
So to protect their ego, they seek to minimize analytics as a methodologically tool.
If the eye test is one tool among many, they aren't going to be particularly involved in the discussion. But if the eye test is the only thing, they can have an equal voice at the table.
maybe this has something to do with the fact that kobe was never a stat padder like lebron and only looked to score a shit ton of points when he had awful teammates and wasn't really expected to win
most of his scoring record damage came during the 2 seasons he had kwame and smush
and there were stretches in the regular season where shaq was "healing on company time" and kobe had to basically carry a team whos 2nd best player was devean george like in 2003
kobe isn't a lebron type player where he looks for a targeted stat line regardless of who he plays with. usually the more talent he had the less he shot
again rob. don't make me destroy you. it gets pretty ugly
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
Bush4Ever35 wrote:People who champion the eye test to the near exclusion (total exclusion?) of every other methodology do so because they are unintelligent and aren't *capable* of having higher level statistical or methodological discussions, or anything with real rigor to it.
So to protect their ego, they seek to minimize analytics as a methodologically tool.
If the eye test is one tool among many, they aren't going to be particularly involved in the discussion. But if the eye test is the only thing, they can have an equal voice at the table.
Pretty sad.
What's interesting is, the eye test was a big part of what ElGee used to evaluate players. He watched hundreds of games, and graded both defense (scoring errors/exceptional plays) and passing (measuring good/bad passes per 100; as an aside, he said in his Kobe writeup that Bryant grades out as a better passer than Jordan).
Bush4Ever35 wrote:People who champion the eye test to the near exclusion (total exclusion?) of every other methodology do so because they are unintelligent and aren't *capable* of having higher level statistical or methodological discussions, or anything with real rigor to it.
So to protect their ego, they seek to minimize analytics as a methodologically tool.
If the eye test is one tool among many, they aren't going to be particularly involved in the discussion. But if the eye test is the only thing, they can have an equal voice at the table.
Pretty sad.
stats lie
the eye test and results based on context is actually the only way to judge a guy truthfully .... a guy can manufacture great numbers and actually be cancerous
the only better way to judge a guy is to play them ( like jim jackson told nick wright this week )
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
stats would tell you kobe/lebron/jordan are all pretty equal in 3 point shooting
but we all know kobe is way ahead of lebron and lebron is way ahead of jordan... kobe took nothing but contested threes. lebron took a shit ton of open threes. and jordan took next to no threes and was shook to even shoot wide open most of the time
but this can't be judged through analytics ... only the eye test
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
see how many more games there are with lower field goals
and if you actually watched any laker games ( @FPL can back me up on this ) .. during those years kobe played decoy during 1st quarters and if the lakers were losing big he'd turn it on and try and shoot them back into games. which would trick people into thinking the lakers lost cause of kobes chucking.
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
FPL wrote:
What's interesting is, the eye test was a big part of what ElGee used to evaluate players. He watched hundreds of games, and graded both defense (scoring errors/exceptional plays) and passing (measuring good/bad passes per 100; as an aside, he said in his Kobe writeup that Bryant grades out as a better passer than Jordan).
It's obvious analytics need to be combined with traditional scouting (and a rewind button with lots and lots of time of *focused* scouting on *particular* things within possession) if you want to be super-serious. Any analyst worth their salt in their respective fields does some variant of qualitative/quantitative analysis. With regards to the eye test, there are simply too many moving parts in too many possessions in too many games to hold all the information in your head in single viewings. Especially casual viewings the way most people watch sports.
But 95 percent of internet people who invoke the eye test do so because the squishy and more subjective nature of the eye test is significantly more generous to shitty arguments/positions and less open to strong attacks.
The best arguments look even better under a tighter microscope with better methodology.
But with an ultra loose microscope, great arguments and bad arguments are less distinguishable.
Last edited by Bush4Ever35 on Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:36 pm, edited 5 times in total.
see how many more games there are with lower field goals
and if you actually watched any laker games ( @FPL can back me up on this ) .. during those years kobe played decoy during 1st quarters and if the lakers were losing big he'd turn it on and try and shoot them back into games. which would trick people into thinking the lakers lost cause of kobes chucking.
Huh....how many more games with lower? Do you know how rare it would be for anyone in the modern era to have 40 games of 25+ FGAs over 2 seasons.....and even more rare doing it on a team with another All-NBA player alongside him?
I'd bet only Jordan would match that.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
again. kobe would sit back and let others get going during 1st quarters during those years.
he'd only go off for huge FGA games because others weren't producing .. it was a rare desperation tactic
but i thankyou bobclippsfan for adding more fuel to my eye test fire. since you tried understanding basketball just by using the nick wright box score method
it failed you
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
