2014 Anger General Greatest of All Time: #7 selection

[vcsgrizzfan]

So why is Russell considered the GOAT (by many people), with 0 Finals MVP's?

Probably because of the rest of his resume.

Which is largely based on what, exactly?

2 collegiate titles on teams that never won shit before after him. USF is not UCLA or UNC. It was bum fuck U before and after him

11 rings in 13 years with every single year being voted MVP on that team by his peers except for his rookie year when he missed a third of the season because he was winning gold in Melbourne.

[Titan18]

I'd like to change my vote to Kobe.

Please update the rankings

[Deez]

I'd like to change my vote to Kobe.

Please update the rankings

Lol crack head

[elmouse03]

I'd like to change my vote to Kobe.

Please update the rankings

Screw that. Change mine to Hondo please.

[LNS]

lol everyone dog piled on poor tdk in here!

[Y2K]

I'd like to change my vote to Kobe.

Please update the rankings

Screw that. Change mine to Hondo please.

[kobeunderbite]

Kobe has 8 votes now by my count.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Wilt being held to under 12 a game in those 69 finals and Hondo being a non factor in regular season voting means nothing?

Russell was being Russell. When he left, we know what happened - lottery.

To be fair, one of the posters in the thread broke down both series, and opted for Russell in 68, and seemed to be leaning in his direction in 69:

1968: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpo ... stcount=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1969: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpo ... stcount=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you were watching those two years so I'll defer to your opinion if you feel Russell indeed was more deserving than Havlicek in each Finals.

Grizz is a Russell Slurper... he's not objective on the matter.

In 68 Hondo led the league in Playoff AST and PPG, averaging 25.9 / 8.6 / 7.5 per game... he also led Boston in Win Shares overall with significantly more OWS and just behind Russell in DWS. in 69 he averaged 25.4 / 9.9 / 5.6 in the Playoffs... 5 more PPG than Russell and second on the team in Defensive WS.

Hondo was clearly Boston's greatest all-around player thos 2 years, impacting the floor on both ends while Russell was an Offensive liability.

[Deez]

#8 already. This ones been over for hours

[thedangerouskitchen]

Wilt being held to under 12 a game in those 69 finals and Hondo being a non factor in regular season voting means nothing?

Russell was being Russell. When he left, we know what happened - lottery.

To be fair, one of the posters in the thread broke down both series, and opted for Russell in 68, and seemed to be leaning in his direction in 69:

1968: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpo ... stcount=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1969: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpo ... stcount=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you were watching those two years so I'll defer to your opinion if you feel Russell indeed was more deserving than Havlicek in each Finals.

Grizz is a Russell Slurper... he's not objective on the matter.

In 68 Hondo led the league in Playoff AST and PPG, averaging 25.9 / 8.6 / 7.5 per game... he also led Boston in Win Shares overall with significantly more OWS than Russ, and just behind Russell in DWS. in 69 he averaged 25.4 / 9.9 / 5.6 in the Playoffs... 15 more PPG than Russell and second on the team in Defensive WS.

Hondo was clearly Boston's greatest all-around player thos 2 years, impacting the floor on both ends while Russell was an Offensive liability.

[elmouse03]

Wilt being held to under 12 a game in those 69 finals and Hondo being a non factor in regular season voting means nothing?

Russell was being Russell. When he left, we know what happened - lottery.

To be fair, one of the posters in the thread broke down both series, and opted for Russell in 68, and seemed to be leaning in his direction in 69:

1968: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpo ... stcount=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1969: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpo ... stcount=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you were watching those two years so I'll defer to your opinion if you feel Russell indeed was more deserving than Havlicek in each Finals.

Grizz is a Russell Slurper... he's not objective on the matter.

In 68 Hondo led the league in Playoff AST and PPG, averaging 25.9 / 8.6 / 7.5 per game... he also led Boston in Win Shares overall with significantly more OWS and just behind Russell in DWS. in 69 he averaged 25.4 / 9.9 / 5.6 in the Playoffs... 5 more PPG than Russell and second on the team in Defensive WS.

Hondo was clearly Boston's greatest all-around player thos 2 years, impacting the floor on both ends while Russell was an Offensive liability.

I'm a Pettit slurper so bring it Grizz. :boxing:

[thedangerouskitchen]

We've gone over this before. You can't give out awards based upon assumptions. That'd be like me saying Russell would have 9-10 FMVP's and is the GOAT.

So why is Russell considered the GOAT (by many) with -0- Finals MVP's?

Because he also has multiple regular season MVP's and was considered by many as the best or second best player of his generation. Also, it's universally accepted that Russell was the "lead dog" on those title teams.

Try harder.

So LeBron is in the discussion for GOAT then, using your logic?

[thedangerouskitchen]

.

Like straw men a lot?

Players voted for MVP. Russell got the votes. Funny thing is, when he retired they went from having the top defensive rating in the league and winning a title to missing the playoffs. I'm thinking the players knew why that defense was winning titles.

So again... you are saying that MVP "votes" = who is the "better" player and that's nonsense.

...and I'm throwing your questions right back at you, so if I'm using straw man arguments what the hell are you doing?

You are talking out of your ass like you pretty much always do. I don't use straw men.

I threw your EXACT questions right back at you, fool...

[LNS]

So why is Russell considered the GOAT (by many) with -0- Finals MVP's?

Because he also has multiple regular season MVP's and was considered by many as the best or second best player of his generation. Also, it's universally accepted that Russell was the "lead dog" on those title teams.

Try harder.

So LeBron is in the discussion for GOAT then, using your logic?

If he has 11 rings to go along with his MVP's like Russell does, then of course.

NEXT?

[elmouse03]

Because he also has multiple regular season MVP's and was considered by many as the best or second best player of his generation. Also, it's universally accepted that Russell was the "lead dog" on those title teams.

Try harder.

So LeBron is in the discussion for GOAT then, using your logic?

If he has 11 rings to go along with his MVP's like Russell does, then of course.

NEXT?

umm ummm Kwame >>>> Kobe.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Because he also has multiple regular season MVP's and was considered by many as the best or second best player of his generation. Also, it's universally accepted that Russell was the "lead dog" on those title teams.

Try harder.

So LeBron is in the discussion for GOAT then, using your logic?

If he has 11 rings to go along with his MVP's like Russell does, then of course.

NEXT?

Ahhh... I see.

Well guess what?

Hondo = 8 rings / Kobe = 5 rings

Hondo ---> Kobe



Ouuuuuch...!!

[vcsgrizzfan]

Wilt being held to under 12 a game in those 69 finals and Hondo being a non factor in regular season voting means nothing?

Russell was being Russell. When he left, we know what happened - lottery.

To be fair, one of the posters in the thread broke down both series, and opted for Russell in 68, and seemed to be leaning in his direction in 69:

1968: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpo ... stcount=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1969: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpo ... stcount=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you were watching those two years so I'll defer to your opinion if you feel Russell indeed was more deserving than Havlicek in each Finals.

Grizz is a Russell Slurper... he's not objective on the matter.

In 68 Hondo led the league in Playoff AST and PPG, averaging 25.9 / 8.6 / 7.5 per game... he also led Boston in Win Shares overall with significantly more OWS than Russ, and just behind Russell in DWS. in 69 he averaged 25.4 / 9.9 / 5.6 in the Playoffs... 15 more PPG than Russell and second on the team in Defensive WS.

Hondo was clearly Boston's greatest all-around player thos 2 years, impacting the floor on both ends while Russell was an Offensive liability.

Precisely. That's why the players in the NBA those years voted for Russell as MVP and not Hondo. That's also why they went from champions to chumps when Russell retired.

[LNS]

So LeBron is in the discussion for GOAT then, using your logic?

If he has 11 rings to go along with his MVP's like Russell does, then of course.

NEXT?

Ahhh... I see.

Well guess what?

Hondo = 8 rings / Kobe = 5 rings

Hondo ---> Kobe



Ouuuuuch...!!

Does that include MVP's too? You seem to bounce from one set of criteria to another. It's not either/or, it's a culmination of things.

Russell has 11 rings. He also has 5 MVP's. And that's just scratching the surface.

Do you grasp yet how this works? You seem to be having a tough time with it.

[Master Spade]

End this already.

Duncan won this spot.


Let's move on to #8!

[thedangerouskitchen]

To be fair, one of the posters in the thread broke down both series, and opted for Russell in 68, and seemed to be leaning in his direction in 69:

1968: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpo ... stcount=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1969: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpo ... stcount=53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you were watching those two years so I'll defer to your opinion if you feel Russell indeed was more deserving than Havlicek in each Finals.

Grizz is a Russell Slurper... he's not objective on the matter.

In 68 Hondo led the league in Playoff AST and PPG, averaging 25.9 / 8.6 / 7.5 per game... he also led Boston in Win Shares overall with significantly more OWS than Russ, and just behind Russell in DWS. in 69 he averaged 25.4 / 9.9 / 5.6 in the Playoffs... 15 more PPG than Russell and second on the team in Defensive WS.

Hondo was clearly Boston's greatest all-around player thos 2 years, impacting the floor on both ends while Russell was an Offensive liability.

Precisely. That's why the players in the NBA those years voted for Russell as MVP and not Hondo. That's also why they went from champions to chumps when Russell retired.

Again, MVP "votes" does not automatically = better... you sound like a delusional Kobe Kid.