Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Talk about anything here.
User avatar
FPL
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8675
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5?

Post by FPL »

Incognito wrote:I understand why Gohan was so strong. Proper training since he was 4 years old, battle tested going up against opponents who outclassed him, but Goten and Trunks fusion reaching SSJ3 was BS. Same thing with the Mystic power up that let Gohan catch up without training. I would have liked to see Future Trunks reach SSJ3 before Gotenks, he was battle tested and desperate.

I think you're right about that. Vegeta has unfinished business with Bills because of whatever happened between Bills and his dad.
There was that rubbish about half-breeds being super powerful (Nappa alluded to it when he and Vegeta first left for Earth). I don't mind Gohan as much, especially since he was fighting with grown men from when he was a kid.

Goten/Trunks were gifted power though, and they were super strong from the getgo (SSJ Gotenks was felt from Kaioshin's planet, and Goku wasn't until he turned SSJ3, so by the guidebooks he's at least 8x as powerful, since SSJ3=4xSSJ2=8xSSJ...Super Buu and Mystic Gohan were about the same strength as SSJ3 Gotenks, though they didn't have the time limit). The Mystic thing is lame, but at least they said he was brought "beyond his limits".

Goku was gifted God Power in BOG, which Vegeta presumably will be as well in the sequel. Not a fan of gifted power ups, but it is necessary:

1) Goku fights in his base state at the end of the manga against Uub (Kid Buu's reincarnation, and when he gets angry is as powerful). Since SSJ = 50x boost, and SSJ3 = 8x SSJ, that means that Goku needs to get to 400x his level from the Buu Saga. The God power up makes sense.

2) Not sure if you're familiar with (the now-defunct) Dragon Ball Online, but evidently Toriyama wrote the backstory, and evidently Goku and Vegeta head into space to settle the score, and end up offing each other in a supernova type explosion. So Vegeta needs to catch up to Goku somehow.

I do like Future Trunks, but they've kinda limited themselves since he killed off Cell (and Buu will never be revived, since there aren't powerful enough people on Earth in his timeline). There is a PSP game (Shin Budokai: Another Road) that explores that potential storyline (namely, Buu in Trunks's timeline) though.
User avatar
Incognito
All-Time Great
Posts: 16959
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:51 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5?

Post by Incognito »

fpliii wrote:
Incognito wrote:I understand why Gohan was so strong. Proper training since he was 4 years old, battle tested going up against opponents who outclassed him, but Goten and Trunks fusion reaching SSJ3 was BS. Same thing with the Mystic power up that let Gohan catch up without training. I would have liked to see Future Trunks reach SSJ3 before Gotenks, he was battle tested and desperate.

I think you're right about that. Vegeta has unfinished business with Bills because of whatever happened between Bills and his dad.
There was that rubbish about half-breeds being super powerful (Nappa alluded to it when he and Vegeta first left for Earth). I don't mind Gohan as much, especially since he was fighting with grown men from when he was a kid.

Goten/Trunks were gifted power though, and they were super strong from the getgo (SSJ Gotenks was felt from Kaioshin's planet, and Goku wasn't until he turned SSJ3, so by the guidebooks he's at least 8x as powerful, since SSJ3=4xSSJ2=8xSSJ...Super Buu and Mystic Gohan were about the same strength as SSJ3 Gotenks, though they didn't have the time limit). The Mystic thing is lame, but at least they said he was brought "beyond his limits".

Goku was gifted God Power in BOG, which Vegeta presumably will be as well in the sequel. Not a fan of gifted power ups, but it is necessary:

1) Goku fights in his base state at the end of the manga against Uub (Kid Buu's reincarnation, and when he gets angry is as powerful). Since SSJ = 50x boost, and SSJ3 = 8x SSJ, that means that Goku needs to get to 400x his level from the Buu Saga. The God power up makes sense.

2) Not sure if you're familiar with (the now-defunct) Dragon Ball Online, but evidently Toriyama wrote the backstory, and evidently Goku and Vegeta head into space to settle the score, and end up offing each other in a supernova type explosion. So Vegeta needs to catch up to Goku somehow.

I do like Future Trunks, but they've kinda limited themselves since he killed off Cell (and Buu will never be revived, since there aren't powerful enough people on Earth in his timeline). There is a PSP game (Shin Budokai: Another Road) that explores that potential storyline (namely, Buu in Trunks's timeline) though.
I read an article where Toriyama speaks on SSJ3.

He says Goku realized after fighting Bills that he's better off mastering normal state and SSJ rather than transforming to SSJ2 or SSJ3. Vegeta surpassing SSJ3 in Battle of the Gods must be the first steps in phasing out SSJ3 and killing GT lore. Does this kill the SSJ multiplier that has been established forever?

I love the SSJ2 transformation and don't want it to become obsolete but I've always hated SSJ3.

That's interesting about Buu in Future Trunks' time line I would watch a movie about that.
User avatar
Max
Coach
Posts: 7244
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:55 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5?

Post by Max »

You guys are posting spoilers ITT.
User avatar
FPL
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8675
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5?

Post by FPL »

Incognito wrote:I read an article where Toriyama speaks on SSJ3.

He says Goku realized after fighting Bills that he's better off mastering normal state and SSJ rather than transforming to SSJ2 or SSJ3. Vegeta surpassing SSJ3 in Battle of the Gods must be the first steps in phasing out SSJ3 and killing GT lore. Does this kill the SSJ multiplier that has been established forever?

I love the SSJ2 transformation and don't want it to become obsolete but I've always hated SSJ3.

That's interesting about Buu in Future Trunks' time line I would watch a movie about that.
My one issue with that is that it's a bit of a retcon. SSJ2 was the real deal because it was a way to balance power and speed (as opposed to USSJ). Though I guess in terms of energy consumption, it could make sense.

I think GT is sorta in a different universe now. The only way it would make sense now is if after the next movie, Goku (and presumably Vegeta) completely lose their God ki. Toriyama noted that he viewed BOG as a continuation of the manga serialization, as will be the case with the sequel. Not sure if the multiplier is dead, but Bills did note that Goku absorbed the Super Saiyan God ki, so his SSJ state was similar in power.

I like SSJ2 a lot as well, and SSJ3 is weird. It's not even a normal state, since the only two times it's used are freak, unnatural occurrences (Goku while dead, and Gotenks while fused...and SSJ3 reduces both Goku's time on earth, and Gotenks's time while fused).
User avatar
swampgator
All-Time Great
Posts: 15566
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:36 pm
Location: ATL

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5?

Post by swampgator »

No, as things were laid out it would be impossible to do so. Everything has/had a purpose and a reason. To question that is human, yet to understand it is not.
User avatar
Incognito
All-Time Great
Posts: 16959
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:51 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5?

Post by Incognito »

fpliii wrote:
Incognito wrote:I read an article where Toriyama speaks on SSJ3.

He says Goku realized after fighting Bills that he's better off mastering normal state and SSJ rather than transforming to SSJ2 or SSJ3. Vegeta surpassing SSJ3 in Battle of the Gods must be the first steps in phasing out SSJ3 and killing GT lore. Does this kill the SSJ multiplier that has been established forever?

I love the SSJ2 transformation and don't want it to become obsolete but I've always hated SSJ3.

That's interesting about Buu in Future Trunks' time line I would watch a movie about that.
My one issue with that is that it's a bit of a retcon. SSJ2 was the real deal because it was a way to balance power and speed (as opposed to USSJ). Though I guess in terms of energy consumption, it could make sense.

I think GT is sorta in a different universe now. The only way it would make sense now is if after the next movie, Goku (and presumably Vegeta) completely lose their God ki. Toriyama noted that he viewed BOG as a continuation of the manga serialization, as will be the case with the sequel. Not sure if the multiplier is dead, but Bills did note that Goku absorbed the Super Saiyan God ki, so his SSJ state was similar in power.

I like SSJ2 a lot as well, and SSJ3 is weird. It's not even a normal state, since the only two times it's used are freak, unnatural occurrences (Goku while dead, and Gotenks while fused...and SSJ3 reduces both Goku's time on earth, and Gotenks's time while fused).
Yeah, SSJ2 played a huge part in the storyline and shouldn't be written out. It was just as big of a deal as SSJ was to kill Freeza.

As for SSJ3, it always seemed out of place imo. Goku and Vegeta fight Kid Buu as SSJ2's for all this time and suddenly Goku brings out SSJ3, why fight in the weaker state for so long?
User avatar
Kingcarl24
G.O.A.T.
Posts: 42560
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:48 am

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by Kingcarl24 »

I was juuuuuusssssstttttt too old when Dragon Ball Z and Pokemon got popular. Seems like I missed out on something big.
User avatar
kobeunderbite
Proud supporter of President Trump.
Posts: 56686
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:03 pm
Location: http://oi58.tinypic.com/1zx7f55.jpg

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by kobeunderbite »

Great thread.
User avatar
paskeezy3000
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9124
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by paskeezy3000 »

too much misinformation being spewed itt, tbh. GT isn't canon and I don't even recognize that it exists, although ive seen it. GT sucks. Super is the bizness tho. great stuff.
#1 Kareem
#2 Karl
#3 Kobe
User avatar
paskeezy3000
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9124
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by paskeezy3000 »

I made a mistake and commented without looking at the dates ITT. I thought you guys were posting these comments today and it made my head hurt. sorry guys.
#1 Kareem
#2 Karl
#3 Kobe
User avatar
Incognito
All-Time Great
Posts: 16959
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:51 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by Incognito »

paskeezy3000 wrote:I made a mistake and commented without looking at the dates ITT. I thought you guys were posting these comments today and it made my head hurt. sorry guys.
FPL knows everything about DBZ. I'm limited now. I've only seen a few episodes of Super. I'm waiting til next summer for the English dub.
User avatar
FPL
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8675
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by FPL »

Incognito wrote:
paskeezy3000 wrote:I made a mistake and commented without looking at the dates ITT. I thought you guys were posting these comments today and it made my head hurt. sorry guys.
FPL knows everything about DBZ. I'm limited now. I've only seen a few episodes of Super. I'm waiting til next summer for the English dub.
Super is pretty solid, but the voices are rough at times. Don't have a problem with the japanese in most cases when watching with subs, but Goku's voice is too distracting. I don't think it's an acquired taste, more a matter of preference, and the American VA for Goku in particular (Sean Schemmel) has become terrific.
User avatar
paskeezy3000
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9124
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by paskeezy3000 »

FPL wrote:
Incognito wrote:
paskeezy3000 wrote:I made a mistake and commented without looking at the dates ITT. I thought you guys were posting these comments today and it made my head hurt. sorry guys.
FPL knows everything about DBZ. I'm limited now. I've only seen a few episodes of Super. I'm waiting til next summer for the English dub.
Super is pretty solid, but the voices are rough at times. Don't have a problem with the japanese in most cases when watching with subs, but Goku's voice is too distracting. I don't think it's an acquired taste, more a matter of preference, and the American VA for Goku in particular (Sean Schemmel) has become terrific.
I actually enjoy the English captioned Japanese version but can't wait for the English dubs. Dude. New arc might be epic. Return of android 17 and Mystic Gohan. Not sure what's gonna happen in a couple weeks with the return of Hit though. I heard it's only gonna be a few episodes of Hit then a bunch of filler and then the new arc in February.
#1 Kareem
#2 Karl
#3 Kobe
User avatar
FPL
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8675
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by FPL »

paskeezy3000 wrote:
FPL wrote:
Incognito wrote:
FPL knows everything about DBZ. I'm limited now. I've only seen a few episodes of Super. I'm waiting til next summer for the English dub.
Super is pretty solid, but the voices are rough at times. Don't have a problem with the japanese in most cases when watching with subs, but Goku's voice is too distracting. I don't think it's an acquired taste, more a matter of preference, and the American VA for Goku in particular (Sean Schemmel) has become terrific.
I actually enjoy the English captioned Japanese version but can't wait for the English dubs. Dude. New arc might be epic. Return of android 17 and Mystic Gohan. Not sure what's gonna happen in a couple weeks with the return of Hit though. I heard it's only gonna be a few episodes of Hit then a bunch of filler and then the new arc in February.
Hope Gohan has a legit comeback. I think we agreed he's responsible for the two most badass parts of the series (manhandling Perfect Cell and Super Buu).
User avatar
xer0
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5136
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:18 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5?

Post by xer0 »

Kobeunderbite wrote:Goku-Frieza was too classic to not be #1 in my book.
Agreed, that battle took up so many episodes and it was just so fun to watch the first time.
User avatar
paskeezy3000
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9124
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by paskeezy3000 »

The Future Trunks, Goku Black, Zamasu arc has overtaken the Cell arc as my favorite.
#1 Kareem
#2 Karl
#3 Kobe
User avatar
Offensive
All-Star
Posts: 1012
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:15 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by Offensive »

super has been trash
User avatar
paskeezy3000
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9124
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by paskeezy3000 »

Offensive wrote:super has been trash
what about it has been trash? give specifics.
#1 Kareem
#2 Karl
#3 Kobe
User avatar
Offensive
All-Star
Posts: 1012
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:15 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by Offensive »

paskeezy3000 wrote:
Offensive wrote:super has been trash
what about it has been trash? give specifics.
terrible animations ,cookie cutter story which I know its always been cookie cutter. The whole Black/Rose goku was so predictable and lazy I will say the last few eps with trunks was pretty good but the whole was boring.
User avatar
paskeezy3000
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9124
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Could Goku have gone Super Saiyan 5? [SPOILERS]

Post by paskeezy3000 »

Offensive wrote:
paskeezy3000 wrote:
Offensive wrote:super has been trash
what about it has been trash? give specifics.
terrible animations ,cookie cutter story which I know its always been cookie cutter. The whole Black/Rose goku was so predictable and lazy I will say the last few eps with trunks was pretty good but the whole was boring.
the animation has been amazing looking.
[youtube]GANllHx_pO8[/youtube]
[youtube]FycEF37RyXc[/youtube]


cookie cutter story is your opinion though I disagree.


Goku black is the greatest Dragon Ball villain all time.
[youtube]wOvqyDLRcxw[/youtube]
#1 Kareem
#2 Karl
#3 Kobe
Post Reply