That shot by Jokic is proof that the league is MANY levels better than it was in the 90s

[thedangerouskitchen]

Imagine guys like Shaq, Ewing, Zo or Mutombo having to guard the opposing center 24 feet from the rim......exposing the interior to spacing and taking away their one strength defensively.

It would be game over.

That TDK doesn't get this simple fact makes me shake my head. Shaq guarding the screen and roll from the 3 point line. Are you freaking kidding me?

Jokic takes 2-3 long-range attempts per game and MISSES 65% of the time.

Re-read that again and again and again to discover what you and meatball grizz aren't "getting".



And FTR young Shaq in Orlando (before he got lazy and fat) would completely embarrass Jokic in the post OR defending him on the perimeter.

[Robceltsfan]

TDK.....did they guard MJ at the 3-point line? Or Kobe....did they guard him at the 3-point line?

Because Jokic is as good or better than both of them from deep. And MJ wasn't taking 2-3 shots from deep per game either.

[zombiesonics]

Ewing is just as slow and lumbering as Jokic but without the skills and 50 pounds lighter.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Who said I didn't appreciate his greatness, meatball.

Different times, different style, different rules, different game does not = "better".



Jokic would get his ass kicked beyond recognition if he was playing the traditional Center position against the great Bigs in the past.

I mean, imagine this slow, soft non-athletic white dude trying to keep up with Dream, Robinson, Ewing or Habbar down low. They'd literally eat him alive.

No, they wouldn't. Jokic is a very underrated post defender and he isn't getting moved. Ewing isn't worth one fine hair on Jokic's ass. Jokic only needs to guard those guys twelve feet from the rim and in. They have to defend him to the 3 point line and beyond. He's stealing their lunch money way more often than they are stealing his.

STHU meatball... so now Jokic is better than the all-time great Centers in the post / around the rim in an era where Centers hardly play in the post / around the rim???

Again: You wonder why you're a meatball.



... and FT Jokic MISSES 65% of his shots from 3 and only averages 2-3 long-range attempts per game, dope... you act like he's Steph Curry out there.

Get a grip on reality.

If you watched hoops, you would know that Jokic does a ton of his work from the high post. He can pass from the there, he can shoot from there and he can put it on the deck from there and then decide what to do, either finish or pass. You have no idea how versatile his game is. And Jokic has a very good post game. You would know that too if you watched him play. It's all part of what makes him so valuable. He can beat you a ton of different ways. Guys like Shaq would shit their pants if they had to guard him in the high post on a screen and roll, or even one on one.

Jokic can play in the post with the best of them. It just doesn't make sense for him to spend that much time there considering how much damage he can do from the high post.

Like I said earlier, I like Jokic's chances of defending from 12 feet in against those guys a LOT better than I like their chances of containing him from 25 feet and in.

[thedangerouskitchen]

FURTHERMORE... you dopes act like the entire NBA today is made up of players like Nikola Jokic.



That would be like comparing every player today to Jordan, or Wilt (ie; once in a generation typle talents).

Puleeeeease.

Jokic is an exception, not the norm.

[Titan18]

I mean it is a bit funny that a frumpy white dude who hates basketball is embarrassing the league like he is

Weak ass era!



But that shot was badass. Think it was the first time I saw him happy also lol

[vcsgrizzfan]

FURTHERMORE... you dopes act like the entire NBA today is made up of players like Nikola Jokic.



That would be like comparing every player today to Jordan, or Wilt (ie; once in a generation typle talents).

Puleeeeease.

Jokic is an exception, not the norm.

He is an outlier. Although Embiid is a poor man's version who isn't as efficient shooting and not nearly the passer but an overall better defender. But he still forces you to guard out to the 3 point line.

There are guys like Curry that tilt the floor effectively but with different skill sets. There are guys like Durant who are better pure shooters at his height than anything seen before, and more guards with the ability to drive, finish and dish than the game has ever seen. More freaks like Giannis who have ridiculous length and explosiveness who can finish in traffic.

There is just MUCH more talent now than there ever has been on a league wide basis. If you don't see it, you are willfully blind.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Imagine guys like Shaq, Ewing, Zo or Mutombo having to guard the opposing center 24 feet from the rim......exposing the interior to spacing and taking away their one strength defensively.

It would be game over.

That TDK doesn't get this simple fact makes me shake my head. Shaq guarding the screen and roll from the 3 point line. Are you freaking kidding me?

Jokic takes 2-3 long-range attempts per game and MISSES 65% of the time.

Re-read that again and again and again to discover what you and meatball grizz aren't "getting".



And FTR young Shaq in Orlando (before he got lazy and fat) would completely embarrass Jokic in the post OR defending him on the perimeter.

No, he wouldn't. Jokic has enough size and strength that Shaq isn't bullying him nearly as much as he bullied most Centers back in his day. Jokic could guard him one on one "mostly" and not need double team help nearly as much as most guys did back in Shaq's prime. Not too dissimilar to Sabonis back in the day. Meanwhile, Jokic would make Shaq work hard in the post, in the high post and Shaq who was never great on screen and roll defense even when he was young, would be in way more trouble than Jokic guarding him. Jokic's ability to pass and put it on the deck are so undervalued. Shaq would be bewildered.

Shaq would get his, but Jokic would definitely be getting his and feeding others all game long. It is actually a shame that Jokic's teammates are generally not that great and not the best shooters. If they were, it would almost be unfair.

[PhutureDynasty]

TDK, which modern center do you think would be most successful in the 80s through late 90s?

Simply curious which center you think would translate best. Not trolling or trying to cause more arguments.

[vcsgrizzfan]

TDK, which modern center do you think would be most successful in the 80s through late 90s?

Simply curious which center you think would translate best. Not trolling or trying to cause more arguments.

Regardless of what he thinks, the answer is Jokic. He would be a matchup nightmare for the vast majority of Centers from that era.

[Robceltsfan]

Embiid is similar. Not so much with regards to passing.....but stretching the defense for sure.

[zombiesonics]

TDK, which modern center do you think would be most successful in the 80s through late 90s?

Simply curious which center you think would translate best. Not trolling or trying to cause more arguments.

Jokic, Embiid, AD, KAT, Sabonis, Bam

There aren’t many who couldn’t.

[Bush4Ever.]

TDK really does owe this board an apology for wasting our time on this silly debate, when the facts and advantages are so obvious.

Like most boomers and progressives, he's too arrogant to simply cast his eyes downward, bend the knee, and admit he was (hilariously) wrong.

I have sympathy for mental illness (the main cause of thinking there is any kind of overall equivalence between the 80s/90s to now), but when you start negatively impacting other people that sympathy goes away. For me at least.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I mean it is a bit funny that a frumpy white dude who hates basketball is embarrassing the league like he is

Weak ass era!



But that shot was badass. Think it was the first time I saw him happy also lol

It's actually hilarious... a slow plodding, soft, white, non-athletic 7-foot Greg Ostertag looking mongloid is going to dominate all-time great athletic beasts like Dream, young Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning, Parish, Jabbar, Moses Malone, etc.

It's as if the Boring White Guy Crew is living in some alternate reality or something.

[LeBronMonsterDunk]

athletic beasts like Dream, young Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning, Parish, Jabbar, Moses Malone, etc.

????

[Bush4Ever.]

Joker's success on the interior of offense (for scoring) is linked to his bulk combined with excellent footwork.

You don't need abs or hyper athleticism to have excellent footwork inside.

[PhutureDynasty]

Joker's success on the interior of offense (for scoring) is linked to his bulk combined with excellent footwork.

You don't need abs or hyper athleticism to have excellent footwork inside.

McHale had some of the best footwork and post moves ever and he was a lanky white oaf.

[thedangerouskitchen]

TDK, which modern center do you think would be most successful in the 80s through late 90s?

Simply curious which center you think would translate best. Not trolling or trying to cause more arguments.

Today's NBA is nothing like it was back in the 80's/90's/00's, specifically as it relates to the Center position. Back then the Centers played 12-15 feet in, and protected the paint/rim. You just don't see that anymore today because of the way the game has changed... not because Bigs back then weren't capable, but rather, the league/players fell in love with long-ball chuckin', while the short attention span of today's generation of fan made it so that the league felt compelled to change the rules and make the game much more Offensive friendly.

That said, off the top of my head guys like Anthony Davis, Gobert, Adebayo, Sabonis, would fit-in well with the 80's/90's style of play for sure.

[thedangerouskitchen]

athletic beasts like Dream, young Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning, Parish, Jabbar, Moses Malone, etc.

????

Relative to Jokic... hell yeah.

[Robceltsfan]

Most of them would either get cooked, or be much less effective by being taken away from the block.