2014 Anger General Geatest of All Time: #22 selection

[vcsgrizzfan]

I am a little bit puzzled with the overwhelming love for Thomas. I can see a case for him but I would have him a little lower down.

There have been a number of posts forgetting that it wasn't Thomas against the Celtics, Bulls etc and personalizing matchups. Those Pistons were deep and talented with big and versatile front courts and another HOFer in the back court with him in Dumars.

I prefer both Wade and Dirk here over Thomas.

I'll vote Wade since it appears he has the best chance to overtake Thomas at this point.

I'm essentially indifferent between Wade and Dirk. With Dirk having gained momentum here ahead of Wade, I switch my vote to Dirk.

Isiah simply does not belong here. The arguments for him I've read here are generally simplistic and kind of dumb.

Dont switch your vote just to change the outcome, thats not fair. Although we might not agree with who everyone is voting for, that doesnt change that thats who they are. You might think that isiah doesnt deserve the spot, but a ton of people do and to change your vote just to spite them is wrong

With all due respect, I think that's even dumber than a vote for Isiah here. I explained in my original post that the vote for Wade was motivated to block Thomas. That remains the case.

[kobeunderbite]

I am a little bit puzzled with the overwhelming love for Thomas. I can see a case for him but I would have him a little lower down.

There have been a number of posts forgetting that it wasn't Thomas against the Celtics, Bulls etc and personalizing matchups. Those Pistons were deep and talented with big and versatile front courts and another HOFer in the back court with him in Dumars.

I prefer both Wade and Dirk here over Thomas.

I'll vote Wade since it appears he has the best chance to overtake Thomas at this point.

I'm essentially indifferent between Wade and Dirk. With Dirk having gained momentum here ahead of Wade, I switch my vote to Dirk.

Isiah simply does not belong here. The arguments for him I've read here are generally simplistic and kind of dumb.

Dont switch your vote just to change the outcome, thats not fair. Although we might not agree with who everyone is voting for, that doesnt change that thats who they are. You might think that isiah doesnt deserve the spot, but a ton of people do and to change your vote just to spite them is wrong

His initial vote was made for Wade because at the time Wade had a better chance at topping Thomas, so really nothing has changed.

[wailuaFC]

I'm essentially indifferent between Wade and Dirk. With Dirk having gained momentum here ahead of Wade, I switch my vote to Dirk.

Isiah simply does not belong here. The arguments for him I've read here are generally simplistic and kind of dumb.

Dont switch your vote just to change the outcome, thats not fair. Although we might not agree with who everyone is voting for, that doesnt change that thats who they are. You might think that isiah doesnt deserve the spot, but a ton of people do and to change your vote just to spite them is wrong

With all due respect, I think that's even dumber than a vote for Isiah here.

There is an inherent problem with making this a write in poll, because we can see who people are voting for it skews who we vote for rather then just being the player we simply think is best. Does your (or mine or y2k or underbites for that matter) opinion that Zeke doesnt belong in the spot somehow outweigh every individuals opinion who voted for him? We may disagree with it, but its a general consensus and changing our votes just because we dont like whos winning isnt right, just my .02

[wailuaFC]

I'm essentially indifferent between Wade and Dirk. With Dirk having gained momentum here ahead of Wade, I switch my vote to Dirk.

Isiah simply does not belong here. The arguments for him I've read here are generally simplistic and kind of dumb.

Dont switch your vote just to change the outcome, thats not fair. Although we might not agree with who everyone is voting for, that doesnt change that thats who they are. You might think that isiah doesnt deserve the spot, but a ton of people do and to change your vote just to spite them is wrong

His initial vote was made for Wade because at the time Wade had a better chance at topping Thomas, so really nothing has changed.

I guess thats my problem, we shouldnt be voting for someone just because we dont like whos winning, thats being disingenuous, vote for who you truly think should be in the spot and the majority rules, dont try to get cutesy and manipulate the results

[vcsgrizzfan]

Dont switch your vote just to change the outcome, thats not fair. Although we might not agree with who everyone is voting for, that doesnt change that thats who they are. You might think that isiah doesnt deserve the spot, but a ton of people do and to change your vote just to spite them is wrong

With all due respect, I think that's even dumber than a vote for Isiah here.

There is an inherent problem with making this a write in poll, because we can see who people are voting for it skews who we vote for rather then just being the player we simply think is best. Does your (or mine or y2k or underbites for that matter) opinion that Zeke doesnt belong in the spot somehow outweigh every individuals opinion who voted for him? We may disagree with it, but its a general consensus and changing our votes just because we dont like whos winning isnt right, just my .02

The format is the format. It's in part why I voted for Wade to begin with and why I'm changing it now. I truly believe a vote for Thomas here is misguided and the format allows me to vote accordingly.

[kobeunderbite]

Not sure what the problem is. He said he's indifferent between Wade and Dirk, making the tiebreaker into voting for the one with a better chance at winning seems very reasonable.

[vcsgrizzfan]

By the way, I also believe your vote for Barkley is misguided but it is what it is. A guy who couldn't guard a door and wasn't particularly interested in trying to guard more than a door should not be quite this high, despite his otherwise great strengths.

[wailuaFC]

With all due respect, I think that's even dumber than a vote for Isiah here.

There is an inherent problem with making this a write in poll, because we can see who people are voting for it skews who we vote for rather then just being the player we simply think is best. Does your (or mine or y2k or underbites for that matter) opinion that Zeke doesnt belong in the spot somehow outweigh every individuals opinion who voted for him? We may disagree with it, but its a general consensus and changing our votes just because we dont like whos winning isnt right, just my .02

The format is the format. It's in part why I voted for Wade to begin with and why I'm changing it now. I truly believe a vote for Thomas here is misguided and the format allows me to vote accordingly.

I dont know, the changing of ones vote just to make sure someone doesnt win seems wrong to me, this is a poll and if the majority of people think Isiah deserve this spot then so be it, yours, mine, no ones opinion is worth more then the majority

[vcsgrizzfan]

There is an inherent problem with making this a write in poll, because we can see who people are voting for it skews who we vote for rather then just being the player we simply think is best. Does your (or mine or y2k or underbites for that matter) opinion that Zeke doesnt belong in the spot somehow outweigh every individuals opinion who voted for him? We may disagree with it, but its a general consensus and changing our votes just because we dont like whos winning isnt right, just my .02

The format is the format. It's in part why I voted for Wade to begin with and why I'm changing it now. I truly believe a vote for Thomas here is misguided and the format allows me to vote accordingly.

I dont know, the changing of ones vote just to make sure someone doesnt win seems wrong to me, this is a poll and if the majority of people think Isiah deserve this spot then so be it, yours, mine, no ones opinion is worth more then the majority

What would have been different if I waited till the poll was close to closing and then voted for Dirk?

You are trying to slay a windmill.

[wailuaFC]

By the way, I also believe your vote for Barkley is misguided but it is what it is. A guy who couldn't guard a door and wasn't particularly interested in trying to guard more than a door should not be quite this high, despite his otherwise great strengths.

Everyone here has their flaws, barkley being allergic to defense was something I considered, but I think his strengths make up for it. Statistically a pretty good argument could be made for barkley, he just lacked the team success of others

[kobeunderbite]

There is an inherent problem with making this a write in poll, because we can see who people are voting for it skews who we vote for rather then just being the player we simply think is best. Does your (or mine or y2k or underbites for that matter) opinion that Zeke doesnt belong in the spot somehow outweigh every individuals opinion who voted for him? We may disagree with it, but its a general consensus and changing our votes just because we dont like whos winning isnt right, just my .02

The format is the format. It's in part why I voted for Wade to begin with and why I'm changing it now. I truly believe a vote for Thomas here is misguided and the format allows me to vote accordingly.

I dont know, the changing of ones vote just to make sure someone doesnt win seems wrong to me, this is a poll and if the majority of people think Isiah deserve this spot then so be it, yours, mine, no ones opinion is worth more then the majority

What you're suggesting seems to even further violate the spirit of the poll in my opinion. Voting against a candidate has and always will be a perfectly acceptable and commonly used approach to voting.

The point of this is to determine a consensus/majority opinion list. If anyone feels that x candidate doesn't deserve to be ranked in x spot, they're well within their rights to vote against him.

[vcsgrizzfan]

By the way, I also believe your vote for Barkley is misguided but it is what it is. A guy who couldn't guard a door and wasn't particularly interested in trying to guard more than a door should not be quite this high, despite his otherwise great strengths.

Everyone here has their flaws, barkley being allergic to defense was something I considered, but I think his strengths make up for it. Statistically a pretty good argument could be made for barkley, he just lacked the team success of others

Barkley played with some pretty damn good players at different points in his career and had how much playoff success? It's a much bigger deal for a big to be indifferent defensively than it is for a guard.

[wailuaFC]

The format is the format. It's in part why I voted for Wade to begin with and why I'm changing it now. I truly believe a vote for Thomas here is misguided and the format allows me to vote accordingly.

I dont know, the changing of ones vote just to make sure someone doesnt win seems wrong to me, this is a poll and if the majority of people think Isiah deserve this spot then so be it, yours, mine, no ones opinion is worth more then the majority

What would have been different if I waited till the poll was close to closing and then voted for Dirk?

You are trying to slay a windmill.

I guess nothing, I just thinking altering the poll to reflect your own opinion is wrong. These polls are supposed to show who the majority thought was greater I disagree with changing votes because you disagree with the majority, But if you guys are fine with that so be it because it seems like more people dont care then those who do so continue on

[ripper76]

I don't understand it at all.

Neither do I. I'm not personally attacking anyone nor their selection but I simply 100% disagree on the basis of very little advantage(s) that Isiah has over the plethora of advantages that several candidates have over him.

I've only got a moment here, so I can't give as thorough an answer as I'd like--or as you'd probably like as well. But as an explanation for my pick of Isiah, I'd say this:

From 1980, the NBA had a great narrative of Magic v Bird, Lakers v Celtics, with a bone thrown to the legacy of the ABA and Dr. J in 1983. The ascendency of Jordan as a replacement to the dichotomy of Bird/Magic seemed a given, up until these upstarts from Detroit showed up. They were brash, nasty even--the Bad Boys--and their unquestioned leader was Isiah Thomas.

Thomas deserves this spot for being the best player on that team. For topping three of the top six players in this poll. No other player in the list can claim that.

We're not voting for teams in these, we're voting for individual players.

Isiah was not a better player than Wade or Dirk.

[wailuaFC]

By the way, I also believe your vote for Barkley is misguided but it is what it is. A guy who couldn't guard a door and wasn't particularly interested in trying to guard more than a door should not be quite this high, despite his otherwise great strengths.

Everyone here has their flaws, barkley being allergic to defense was something I considered, but I think his strengths make up for it. Statistically a pretty good argument could be made for barkley, he just lacked the team success of others

Barkley played with some pretty damn good players at different points in his career and had how much playoff success? It's a much bigger deal for a big to be indifferent defensively than it is for a guard.

Like I said at this point, everyone has flaws. Wade had a very very short peak, dirk was arguably worse defensively then barkley (remember defensive rebounds are the key to defense ), cousy has is era going against him, stockton failed in the playoffs, etc. Basically I just think Barkley is the best remaining, stats can be used to support or argue my point, but theres so little separating all of these guys is basically all bias/subjectiveness at this point

[kobeunderbite]

Neither do I. I'm not personally attacking anyone nor their selection but I simply 100% disagree on the basis of very little advantage(s) that Isiah has over the plethora of advantages that several candidates have over him.

I've only got a moment here, so I can't give as thorough an answer as I'd like--or as you'd probably like as well. But as an explanation for my pick of Isiah, I'd say this:

From 1980, the NBA had a great narrative of Magic v Bird, Lakers v Celtics, with a bone thrown to the legacy of the ABA and Dr. J in 1983. The ascendency of Jordan as a replacement to the dichotomy of Bird/Magic seemed a given, up until these upstarts from Detroit showed up. They were brash, nasty even--the Bad Boys--and their unquestioned leader was Isiah Thomas.

Thomas deserves this spot for being the best player on that team. For topping three of the top six players in this poll. No other player in the list can claim that.

We're not voting for teams in these, we're voting for individual players.

Isiah was not a better player than Wade or Dirk.

And it's not particularly close, either.

Some of these Zeke voters should try to picture what would happen to Wade/Dirk and Isiah's respective teams if they were to switch places.

[kobeunderbite]

On what planet was Dirk arguably worse than Barkley defensively?

[wailuaFC]

On what planet was Dirk arguably worse than Barkley defensively?

Barkley has both a higher career high as well as average defensive win shares as well as rebounds for what its worth

[vcsgrizzfan]

Everyone here has their flaws, barkley being allergic to defense was something I considered, but I think his strengths make up for it. Statistically a pretty good argument could be made for barkley, he just lacked the team success of others

Barkley played with some pretty damn good players at different points in his career and had how much playoff success? It's a much bigger deal for a big to be indifferent defensively than it is for a guard.

Like I said at this point, everyone has flaws. Wade had a very very short peak, dirk was arguably worse defensively then barkley (remember defensive rebounds are the key to defense ), cousy has is era going against him, stockton failed in the playoffs, etc. Basically I just think Barkley is the best remaining, stats can be used to support or argue my point, but theres so little separating all of these guys is basically all bias/subjectiveness at this point

All true and I do believe that to some extent the bitching about Barkley's defense does get overblown. And Dirk won his ring when he had a great defensive center behind him so you have a good point there too. But Dirk was actually a true threat from three rather than a pretend threat and when push came to shove delivered more on the biggest stage.

[kobeunderbite]

On what planet was Dirk arguably worse than Barkley defensively?

Barkley has both a higher career high as well as average defensive win shares as well as rebounds for what its worth

Not worth much. Dirk has more total defensive win shares than Kobe despite the fact that Kobe has played more basketball, meaning he must have had a higher average defensive win share than Kobe at different points.

Dirk actually had the highest defensive rating on a title team and is underrated as a defender.

Not great, but miles ahead of Barkley.