2014 Anger General Geatest of All Time: #20 selection

[elmouse03]

Let's get some opinions and analysis on dirk.

Dirk had zero All-Stars on his team the season he won the Finals.

Twenty times Dirk has made a late 4th quarter/OT field goal to give the Mavs the lead.

Higher ppg/rpg in playoffs than regular season.

Multiple 40-point playoff games (some in closeout games).

Top 10 all-time in offensive win shares.

Arguably one of the most clutch playoff performers in history.

Usually as the competition gets tougher, ala the playoffs, ones efficiency usually drops a bit. Dirk's efficiency really didn't do that.

There is only 3 instances that I can think of off the top of my head where Dirk struggled:

2006 Finals
2007 vs Golden state
2011 Finals (He won FMVP anyways)

I see no one with a stronger case than Dirk for this spot. It has zero to do with KG.

I remember in the 01 WCSF vs the Spurs that Dirk got caught up on a switch on Duncan and the announcer is basically screaming that somebody else needs to get on Duncan other then Dirk. That was the series that Juwan Howard injured Derek Anderson who had his best season that year.

[876Stephen]

No problem with Dirk here, especially with Kg ahead of him.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Not that it matters but Havlicek had two votes by the second page.

[dwcmwa]

With regards to Dirk, he doesn't belong above the likes of Baylor, Pippen, D-Robinson, Havlicek, Barkley and Isiah. But yes he's worthy of a spot in the 20's.

[AbeVigodaLive]

With regards to Dirk, he doesn't belong above the likes of Baylor, Pippen, D-Robinson, Havlicek, Barkley and Isiah. But yes he's worthy of a spot in the 20's.

I'd put him above Isiah and Pippen.

[Bush4Ever]

I don't think there is really any player in that list that hasn't already been picked that is *clearly and obviously* ahead of Dirk, for what's it worth.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don't think there is really any player in that list that hasn't already been picked that is *clearly and obviously* ahead of Dirk, for what's it worth.

Agreed. At this point, you can make a case for a lot of guys.

[Havlicekstealsit]

Bulls fans sad a second fiddle during the Jordan years isn't top 20 all time.

[kobeunderbite]

Let's get some opinions and analysis on dirk.

10th all-time in points, likely to move into top 7-8.
9th all-time in win shares.
8th all-time in offensive win shares.
1x MVP, FMVP, Champion.
15 consecutive seasons of 17.5-26.6 PPG and counting.
One of six players who achieved a 50-40-90 season.
Led Mavs to playoffs in 13 of 14 seasons and counting.
12x All-Star.
12x All-NBA Team.
One of four players with playoff career average of 25 ppg and 10 rpg.
One of eleven players to have been NBA Champion, NBA regular season MVP, NBA Finals MVP and a 10× NBA All-Star.

[FPL]

I voted Dirk here, just wondering where you guys have Robinson, Ewing, and Barkley?

[AbeVigodaLive]

I voted Dirk here, just wondering where you guys have Robinson, Ewing, and Barkley?

Soon (sans Ewing)... it's a hodgepodge right now.

Havlicek
Baylor
Dirk
Barkley
Cousy
Thomas
Stockton
Robinson
Pippen
Frazier

All before Ewing.

[Bush4Ever]

I could easily see some 2 or 3 way ties coming up.

[Deez]

Baylor

[Y2K]

I voted Dirk here, just wondering where you guys have Robinson, Ewing, and Barkley?

I think that Ewing will be much later down the line than Robinson and Barkley.

[876Stephen]

21

[Y2K]

Argument for Charles Barkley:

Points 23,757 (22.1 ppg)
Rebounds 12,546 (11.7 rpg)
Assists 4,215 (3.9 apg)

NBA Most Valuable Player (1993)
11× NBA All-Star (1987–1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1991)
5× All-NBA First Team (1988–1991, 1993)
5× All-NBA Second Team (1986–1987, 1992, 1994–1995)
All-NBA Third Team (1996)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1985)
NBA rebounding leader (1986–87)

He's the shortest rebounding champion of all-time, standing at 6'4 1/2.

For those of you who like analytics:

-finished top 8 or higher in PER from 1985-99

Look at the Philadelphia years on an individual level:

Code: Select all

<PRE>                                                                                                                                       
Season      Age  Tm  Lg Pos    G   GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT  FTA  FT% ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1984-85      21 PHI NBA  PF   82   60 28.6 5.2  9.5 .545 0.0 0.1 .167 5.2  9.5 .548 3.6  4.9 .733 3.2 5.3  8.6 1.9 1.2 1.0 2.5 3.7 14.0
1985-86      22 PHI NBA  PF   80   80 36.9 7.4 13.0 .572 0.2 0.9 .227 7.2 12.1 .598 5.0  7.2 .685 4.4 8.4 12.8 3.9 2.2 1.6 4.4 4.2 20.0
1986-87      23 PHI NBA  PF   68   62 40.3 8.2 13.8 .594 0.3 1.5 .202 7.9 12.3 .643 6.3  8.3 .761 5.7 8.9 14.6 4.9 1.8 1.5 4.7 3.7 23.0
1987-88      24 PHI NBA  PF   80   80 39.6 9.4 16.0 .587 0.6 2.0 .280 8.9 14.1 .630 8.9 11.9 .751 4.8 7.1 11.9 3.2 1.3 1.3 3.8 3.5 28.3
1988-89      25 PHI NBA  PF   79   79 39.1 8.9 15.3 .579 0.4 2.1 .216 8.4 13.2 .636 7.6 10.1 .753 5.1 7.4 12.5 4.1 1.6 0.8 3.2 3.3 25.8
1989-90      26 PHI NBA  PF   79   79 39.1 8.9 14.9 .600 0.3 1.2 .217 8.7 13.7 .632 7.1  9.4 .749 4.6 6.9 11.5 3.9 1.9 0.6 3.1 3.2 25.2
1990-91      27 PHI NBA  PF   67   67 37.3 9.9 17.4 .570 0.7 2.3 .284 9.3 15.1 .614 7.1  9.8 .722 3.9 6.3 10.1 4.2 1.6 0.5 3.1 2.6 27.6
1991-92      28 PHI NBA  PF   75   75 38.4 8.3 15.0 .552 0.4 1.8 .234 7.9 13.2 .597 6.1  8.7 .695 3.6 7.5 11.1 4.1 1.8 0.6 3.1 2.6 23.1

8 seasons        PHI NBA      610  582 37.3 8.2 14.3 .576 0.4 1.5 .241 7.9 12.8 .614 6.4  8.8 .733 4.4 7.2 11.6 3.7 1.7 1.0 3.5 3.4 23.3

</PRE>

[dwcmwa]

I voted Dirk here, just wondering where you guys have Robinson, Ewing, and Barkley?

Soon (sans Ewing)... it's a hodgepodge right now.

Havlicek
Baylor
Dirk
Barkley
Cousy
Thomas
Stockton
Robinson
Pippen
Frazier

All before Ewing.

When it comes to Ewing, I agree all of the following should be above him as well as Clyde Drexler.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Argument for Charles Barkley:

Points 23,757 (22.1 ppg)
Rebounds 12,546 (11.7 rpg)
Assists 4,215 (3.9 apg)

NBA Most Valuable Player (1993)
11× NBA All-Star (1987–1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1991)
5× All-NBA First Team (1988–1991, 1993)
5× All-NBA Second Team (1986–1987, 1992, 1994–1995)
All-NBA Third Team (1996)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1985)
NBA rebounding leader (1986–87)

He's the shortest rebounding champion of all-time, standing at 6'4 1/2.

For those of you who like analytics:

-finished top 8 or higher in PER from 1985-99

Look at the Philadelphia years on an individual level:

Code: Select all

<PRE>                                                                                                                                       
Season      Age  Tm  Lg Pos    G   GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT  FTA  FT% ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1984-85      21 PHI NBA  PF   82   60 28.6 5.2  9.5 .545 0.0 0.1 .167 5.2  9.5 .548 3.6  4.9 .733 3.2 5.3  8.6 1.9 1.2 1.0 2.5 3.7 14.0
1985-86      22 PHI NBA  PF   80   80 36.9 7.4 13.0 .572 0.2 0.9 .227 7.2 12.1 .598 5.0  7.2 .685 4.4 8.4 12.8 3.9 2.2 1.6 4.4 4.2 20.0
1986-87      23 PHI NBA  PF   68   62 40.3 8.2 13.8 .594 0.3 1.5 .202 7.9 12.3 .643 6.3  8.3 .761 5.7 8.9 14.6 4.9 1.8 1.5 4.7 3.7 23.0
1987-88      24 PHI NBA  PF   80   80 39.6 9.4 16.0 .587 0.6 2.0 .280 8.9 14.1 .630 8.9 11.9 .751 4.8 7.1 11.9 3.2 1.3 1.3 3.8 3.5 28.3
1988-89      25 PHI NBA  PF   79   79 39.1 8.9 15.3 .579 0.4 2.1 .216 8.4 13.2 .636 7.6 10.1 .753 5.1 7.4 12.5 4.1 1.6 0.8 3.2 3.3 25.8
1989-90      26 PHI NBA  PF   79   79 39.1 8.9 14.9 .600 0.3 1.2 .217 8.7 13.7 .632 7.1  9.4 .749 4.6 6.9 11.5 3.9 1.9 0.6 3.1 3.2 25.2
1990-91      27 PHI NBA  PF   67   67 37.3 9.9 17.4 .570 0.7 2.3 .284 9.3 15.1 .614 7.1  9.8 .722 3.9 6.3 10.1 4.2 1.6 0.5 3.1 2.6 27.6
1991-92      28 PHI NBA  PF   75   75 38.4 8.3 15.0 .552 0.4 1.8 .234 7.9 13.2 .597 6.1  8.7 .695 3.6 7.5 11.1 4.1 1.8 0.6 3.1 2.6 23.1

8 seasons        PHI NBA      610  582 37.3 8.2 14.3 .576 0.4 1.5 .241 7.9 12.8 .614 6.4  8.8 .733 4.4 7.2 11.6 3.7 1.7 1.0 3.5 3.4 23.3

</PRE>

Depending on what criteria you want to use... Malone, Garnett, Barkley and Dirk are all pretty damn close. Throw Petit in there too but his era is harder to gauge.

[elmouse03]

Argument for Charles Barkley:

Points 23,757 (22.1 ppg)
Rebounds 12,546 (11.7 rpg)
Assists 4,215 (3.9 apg)

NBA Most Valuable Player (1993)
11× NBA All-Star (1987–1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1991)
5× All-NBA First Team (1988–1991, 1993)
5× All-NBA Second Team (1986–1987, 1992, 1994–1995)
All-NBA Third Team (1996)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1985)
NBA rebounding leader (1986–87)

He's the shortest rebounding champion of all-time, standing at 6'4 1/2.

For those of you who like analytics:

-finished top 8 or higher in PER from 1985-99

Look at the Philadelphia years on an individual level:

Code: Select all

<PRE>                                                                                                                                       
Season      Age  Tm  Lg Pos    G   GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  FT  FTA  FT% ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1984-85      21 PHI NBA  PF   82   60 28.6 5.2  9.5 .545 0.0 0.1 .167 5.2  9.5 .548 3.6  4.9 .733 3.2 5.3  8.6 1.9 1.2 1.0 2.5 3.7 14.0
1985-86      22 PHI NBA  PF   80   80 36.9 7.4 13.0 .572 0.2 0.9 .227 7.2 12.1 .598 5.0  7.2 .685 4.4 8.4 12.8 3.9 2.2 1.6 4.4 4.2 20.0
1986-87      23 PHI NBA  PF   68   62 40.3 8.2 13.8 .594 0.3 1.5 .202 7.9 12.3 .643 6.3  8.3 .761 5.7 8.9 14.6 4.9 1.8 1.5 4.7 3.7 23.0
1987-88      24 PHI NBA  PF   80   80 39.6 9.4 16.0 .587 0.6 2.0 .280 8.9 14.1 .630 8.9 11.9 .751 4.8 7.1 11.9 3.2 1.3 1.3 3.8 3.5 28.3
1988-89      25 PHI NBA  PF   79   79 39.1 8.9 15.3 .579 0.4 2.1 .216 8.4 13.2 .636 7.6 10.1 .753 5.1 7.4 12.5 4.1 1.6 0.8 3.2 3.3 25.8
1989-90      26 PHI NBA  PF   79   79 39.1 8.9 14.9 .600 0.3 1.2 .217 8.7 13.7 .632 7.1  9.4 .749 4.6 6.9 11.5 3.9 1.9 0.6 3.1 3.2 25.2
1990-91      27 PHI NBA  PF   67   67 37.3 9.9 17.4 .570 0.7 2.3 .284 9.3 15.1 .614 7.1  9.8 .722 3.9 6.3 10.1 4.2 1.6 0.5 3.1 2.6 27.6
1991-92      28 PHI NBA  PF   75   75 38.4 8.3 15.0 .552 0.4 1.8 .234 7.9 13.2 .597 6.1  8.7 .695 3.6 7.5 11.1 4.1 1.8 0.6 3.1 2.6 23.1

8 seasons        PHI NBA      610  582 37.3 8.2 14.3 .576 0.4 1.5 .241 7.9 12.8 .614 6.4  8.8 .733 4.4 7.2 11.6 3.7 1.7 1.0 3.5 3.4 23.3

</PRE>

Depending on what criteria you want to use... Malone, Garnett, Barkley and Dirk are all pretty damn close. Throw Petit in there too but his era is harder to gauge.

Leave Pettit along abe. He is already on the list.

[AbeVigodaLive]

So is Malone. I'm just saying all five guys have pretty impressive resumes in slightly different ways. None stand out too much from the others... each has a lot of strengths and a flaw or two too.