The bulk of wade's success came in the terminally weak EC, and as a sidekick.
Jordan would have clowned Shaq continually about his FTs. Shaq would have continually whined that he didn't get passed to enough.
and anyone who doesn't think the league (especially the EC) was weak in the 90s is delusional.
Nowitzki. Greatness that doesn't need caveats about "prime" or bad teammates or good teammates or longevity or bum knees or time off or anything else.
Nowtizki averaged 25.6 ppg in the playoffs. And upped his rebounding too... to 10.1 per game. In Game 7s... he's 4 - 1... only losing for the 1st time this season as a #8 seed. In those games, he's averaged 27 ppg / 13.4 reb.
He averaged 23.4 ppg in the playoffs in 2001. He averaged 26.8 ppg in 2012.
11 seasons with at least 23.4 ppg in the playoffs.
Furthermore, when you adjust those numbers for pace of the game (which was much higher back then than it was currently and throughout Wade's career), the numbers become even more favorable for Wade. Sorry, there just isn't a solid argument for Isiah over Wade? Dirk? Maybe a little more comparable, but still not as good of an argument when you consider (a) peak vs. peak, (b) offense & defense, and (c) championships.
Nowitzki. Greatness that doesn't need caveats about "prime" or bad teammates or good teammates or longevity or bum knees or time off or anything else.
Nowtizki averaged 25.6 ppg in the playoffs. And upped his rebounding too... to 10.1 per game. In Game 7s... he's 4 - 1... only losing for the 1st time this season as a #8 seed. In those games, he's averaged 27 ppg / 13.4 reb.
He averaged 23.4 ppg in the playoffs in 2001. He averaged 26.8 ppg in 2012.
11 seasons with at least 23.4 ppg in the playoffs.
11 straight seasons with 50 wins or more.
He upped his rebounding? Really? And you believe that's a solid point in his favor? Wade upped his numbers across the board in most cases... including FG% against some of the best defensive teams of his generation... in the playoffs!
No "caveats" necessary, Abe. You were the one asking the questions and the answers were provided to you. There are a boatload of the same kind of questions that can be (and were) asked of Nowitzki (Noringski? Ring any bells?) before he finally got a ring (and after LeBron infamously curled up in the fetal position and played hot potato with the basketball). I haven't taken a look yet (God's honest truth), but I bet Wade's numbers match up pretty well with Nowitzki's in the 2011 Finals, too. Your personal preference is Nowitzki. Fine. But let's not make it into something it isn't.
Nowitzki. Greatness that doesn't need caveats about "prime" or bad teammates or good teammates or longevity or bum knees or time off or anything else.
Nowtizki averaged 25.6 ppg in the playoffs. And upped his rebounding too... to 10.1 per game. In Game 7s... he's 4 - 1... only losing for the 1st time this season as a #8 seed. In those games, he's averaged 27 ppg / 13.4 reb.
He averaged 23.4 ppg in the playoffs in 2001. He averaged 26.8 ppg in 2012.
11 seasons with at least 23.4 ppg in the playoffs.
11 straight seasons with 50 wins or more.
He upped his rebounding? Really? And you believe that's a solid point in his favor? Wade upped his numbers across the board in most cases... including FG% against some of the best defensive teams of his generation... in the playoffs!
No "caveats" necessary, Abe. You were the one asking the questions and the answers were provided to you. There are a boatload of the same kind of questions that can be (and were) asked of Nowitzki (Noringski? Ring any bells?) before he finally got a ring (and after LeBron infamously curled up in the fetal position and played hot potato with the basketball). I haven't taken a look yet (God's honest truth), but I bet Wade's numbers match up pretty well with Nowitzki's in the 2011 Finals, too. Your personal preference is Nowitzki. Fine. But let's not make it into something it isn't.
I'm talking cumulative stats, not individual series. Obviously, both players have individual series where they excelled in the playoffs.
But overall... Wade's PPG are down along with his assists in the playoffs. Nowtizki's ppg and reb went up in the playoffs. And Wade's fg % is not up. Both players see a similar slight drop in fg%...
Those are among the reasons why Wade's PER goes down... and Nowitzki's goes up once playoff season begins.
Nowitzki. Greatness that doesn't need caveats about "prime" or bad teammates or good teammates or longevity or bum knees or time off or anything else.
Nowtizki averaged 25.6 ppg in the playoffs. And upped his rebounding too... to 10.1 per game. In Game 7s... he's 4 - 1... only losing for the 1st time this season as a #8 seed. In those games, he's averaged 27 ppg / 13.4 reb.
He averaged 23.4 ppg in the playoffs in 2001. He averaged 26.8 ppg in 2012.
11 seasons with at least 23.4 ppg in the playoffs.
11 straight seasons with 50 wins or more.
He upped his rebounding? Really? And you believe that's a solid point in his favor? Wade upped his numbers across the board in most cases... including FG% against some of the best defensive teams of his generation... in the playoffs!
No "caveats" necessary, Abe. You were the one asking the questions and the answers were provided to you. There are a boatload of the same kind of questions that can be (and were) asked of Nowitzki (Noringski? Ring any bells?) before he finally got a ring (and after LeBron infamously curled up in the fetal position and played hot potato with the basketball). I haven't taken a look yet (God's honest truth), but I bet Wade's numbers match up pretty well with Nowitzki's in the 2011 Finals, too. Your personal preference is Nowitzki. Fine. But let's not make it into something it isn't.
I'm talking cumulative stats, not individual series. Obviously, both players have individual series where they excelled in the playoffs.
But overall... Wade's PPG are down along with his assists in the playoffs. Nowtizki's ppg and reb went up in the playoffs. And Wade's fg % is not up. Both players see a similar slight drop in fg%...
Those are among the reasons why Wade's PER goes down... and Nowitzki's goes up once playoff season begins.
Yeah... Dirk was definitely a more efficient (and better) player at his peak in the playoffs than Wade. What the fuck was I thinking? He averaged more RPG, after all.
Havlicekstealsit wrote:Reggie Miller is so overrated it's not even funny. Put his sister Cheryl in this list first - she had a much more decorated playing career.
Rough look at Dirk v Wade. Not an exact science, but...
Dirk 10th all-time in points vs. Wade 74th.
Dirk 9th all-time in win shares. vs. Wade 69th.
Dirk 8th all-time in offensive win shares vs. Wade 58th.
Dirk 1x MVP, 1x FMVP, 1x Champion vs. Wade 0x MVP, 1x FMVP, 3x Champion.
Dirk 12 consecutive seasons of 20+ PPG vs. Wade 9.
Dirk = one of six players who achieved a 50-40-90 season.
Dirk led Mavs to playoffs in 13 of 14 seasons and counting vs. Wade 6 of 7 seasons.
Dirk 12x All-Star vs. Wade 10x All-Star.
Dirk 12x All-NBA Team vs. Wade 8x (Dirk 4x First Team vs. Wade 2x First Team).
Dirk = one of four players with playoff career average of 25 ppg and 10 rpg vs. Wade drop in PER in postseason.
Both probably have about 1-3 potential all-star seasons left.
Kobeunderbite wrote:Rough look at Dirk v Wade. Not an exact science, but...
Dirk 10th all-time in points vs. Wade 74th.
Dirk 9th all-time in win shares. vs. Wade 69th.
Dirk 8th all-time in offensive win shares vs. Wade 58th.
Dirk 1x MVP, 1x FMVP, 1x Champion vs. Wade 0x MVP, 1x FMVP, 3x Champion.
Dirk 12 consecutive seasons of 20+ PPG vs. Wade 9.
Dirk = one of six players who achieved a 50-40-90 season.
Dirk led Mavs to playoffs in 13 of 14 seasons and counting vs. Wade 6 of 7 seasons.
Dirk 12x All-Star vs. Wade 10x All-Star.
Dirk 12x All-NBA Team vs. Wade 8x (Dirk 4x First Team vs. Wade 2x First Team).
Dirk = one of four players with playoff career average of 25 ppg and 10 rpg vs. Wade drop in PER in postseason.
Both probably have about 1-3 potential all-star seasons left.
If one wants to look at their respective peaks, then I could see the case for Wade. I just wasn't fully convinced that Wade being the better player at his peak, which wasn't very long, was enough to vote him over Dirk.
@ the GOAT 90s.
