2014 Anger General Greatest of All Time: #7 selection

[thedangerouskitchen]

Why is Kobe's name even on the list BTW, with only 2 lead-dog Rings...?

[876Stephen]

Anyone claiming that 2004 was 'largely' Kobe's fault was not really paying attention. Kobe played terribly, especially given his usual standards, but even had he produced at an even higher level than usual, the Lakers were not winning that series against a white-hot and determined Pistons team. Not when a crippled Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Devean George (lol), Derek Fisher, Luke Walton (lol), Kareem Rush (lol), and Stanislav Medvedenko (lol) were logging the 3rd-9th most minutes on the team. How that team even made the finals with a supporting cast like that is a wonder.

Just to put things into perspective, Kobe shot .381 in the series (43-113). Had he shot to his career mark of 45%, it would have meant hitting 50.85-113 shots, or 7.85 more shots over the course of 5 games, or 1.57 more baskets made per game.

If Kobe produced at his normal levels in the regular season and postseasons before that, the Lakers would have been a lot more competitive. He got no help other than Shaq which I agree with but he also didn't help his cause.

Heck people blame Lebron for 2014 yet his numbers were fantastic in the finals.

"A lot more compeititve" ?

No. The series wasn't remotely close. More competitive by a bit, but definitely not a lot more. The Lakers got punched in the mouth in 3 of their 4 losses, and weren't close at the end of any of them. The only reason it wasn't a sweep is because Kobe played brilliantly in Game 2.

You seem to be underestimating how good Kobe was i the regular season and how bad he was in that finals. If he played up to his regular season level those games would have been a lot closer than you think. Do i think they win? Probably not but they would have been closer late and who knows what happens then.

[kobeunderbite]

Why is Kobe's name even on the list BTW, with only 2 lead-dog Rings...?

At least your drunken ass admits that Kobe was the lead dog in 2010.

[kobeunderbite]

If Kobe produced at his normal levels in the regular season and postseasons before that, the Lakers would have been a lot more competitive. He got no help other than Shaq which I agree with but he also didn't help his cause.

Heck people blame Lebron for 2014 yet his numbers were fantastic in the finals.

"A lot more compeititve" ?

No. The series wasn't remotely close. More competitive by a bit, but definitely not a lot more. The Lakers got punched in the mouth in 3 of their 4 losses, and weren't close at the end of any of them. The only reason it wasn't a sweep is because Kobe played brilliantly in Game 2.

You seem to be underestimating how good Kobe was i the regular season and how bad he was in that finals. If he played up to his regular season level those games would have been a lot closer than you think. Do i think they win? Probably not but they would have been closer late and who knows what happens then.

I won't do the math again, but I can easily project that Kobe shooting at his regular season level (46%+) would account for about 10-12 more made baskets over the course of 5 games in the series. Not exactly game-changing. I'm aware that there is more to the game than one's FG%, but given how not-close the losses were, it's silly to say that Kobe rising from playing poorly to simply playing at his regular season level would make those games even somewhat close. And I know full-well how great Kobe was in the regular season. Perhaps you're underestimating how uncompetitive the finals were.

Additionally, there was good reason for Kobe's struggles, namely a historically dominant defense in Detroit, the likes of which we have not seen since.

[Y2K]

Why is Kobe's name even on the list BTW, with only 2 lead-dog Rings...?

[876Stephen]

"A lot more compeititve" ?

No. The series wasn't remotely close. More competitive by a bit, but definitely not a lot more. The Lakers got punched in the mouth in 3 of their 4 losses, and weren't close at the end of any of them. The only reason it wasn't a sweep is because Kobe played brilliantly in Game 2.

You seem to be underestimating how good Kobe was i the regular season and how bad he was in that finals. If he played up to his regular season level those games would have been a lot closer than you think. Do i think they win? Probably not but they would have been closer late and who knows what happens then.

I won't do the math again, but I can easily project that Kobe shooting at his regular season level (46%+) would account for about 10-12 more made baskets over the course of 5 games in the series. Not exactly game-changing. I'm aware that there is more to the game than one's FG%, but given how not-close the losses were, it's silly to say that Kobe rising from playing poorly to simply playing at his regular season level would make those games even somewhat close. And I know full-well how great Kobe was in the regular season. Perhaps you're underestimating how uncompetitive the finals were.

Additionally, there was good reason for Kobe's struggles, namely a historically dominant defense in Detroit, the likes of which we have not seen since.

It wasn't just Kobe shooting more efficiently. He was more well rounded in the regular season. He got his teammates involved a little more and was a good defender. His all around game was developing a little more and then in the Finals we got none of that.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Why is Kobe's name even on the list BTW, with only 2 lead-dog Rings...?

At least your drunken ass admits that Kobe was the lead dog in 2010.

So what... Bird was lead dog in 81, Magic in 87, Duncan in 07, et al, and they didn't win FMVP. Kobe may have had that title but it doesn't change the fact that Gasol deserved 2010 Finals MVP.

And I don't drink cupcake. How many times does your incredibly dumb-ass need to be told this?

[vcsgrizzfan]

"A lot more compeititve" ?

No. The series wasn't remotely close. More competitive by a bit, but definitely not a lot more. The Lakers got punched in the mouth in 3 of their 4 losses, and weren't close at the end of any of them. The only reason it wasn't a sweep is because Kobe played brilliantly in Game 2.

You seem to be underestimating how good Kobe was i the regular season and how bad he was in that finals. If he played up to his regular season level those games would have been a lot closer than you think. Do i think they win? Probably not but they would have been closer late and who knows what happens then.

I won't do the math again, but I can easily project that Kobe shooting at his regular season level (46%+) would account for about 10-12 more made baskets over the course of 5 games in the series. Not exactly game-changing. I'm aware that there is more to the game than one's FG%, but given how not-close the losses were, it's silly to say that Kobe rising from playing poorly to simply playing at his regular season level would make those games even somewhat close. And I know full-well how great Kobe was in the regular season. Perhaps you're underestimating how uncompetitive the finals were.

Additionally, there was good reason for Kobe's struggles, namely a historically dominant defense in Detroit, the likes of which we have not seen since.

They were a great defense. No questions there. But they played everybody straight up until they were deep in the paint to rotate. Kobe can't blame doubles for shitting the bed.

People blame LeBron for these finals and he shot marvelously relative to his teammates. If he had shot 70% (didn't do the math) they might have still lost.

[kobeunderbite]

You seem to be underestimating how good Kobe was i the regular season and how bad he was in that finals. If he played up to his regular season level those games would have been a lot closer than you think. Do i think they win? Probably not but they would have been closer late and who knows what happens then.

I won't do the math again, but I can easily project that Kobe shooting at his regular season level (46%+) would account for about 10-12 more made baskets over the course of 5 games in the series. Not exactly game-changing. I'm aware that there is more to the game than one's FG%, but given how not-close the losses were, it's silly to say that Kobe rising from playing poorly to simply playing at his regular season level would make those games even somewhat close. And I know full-well how great Kobe was in the regular season. Perhaps you're underestimating how uncompetitive the finals were.

Additionally, there was good reason for Kobe's struggles, namely a historically dominant defense in Detroit, the likes of which we have not seen since.

It wasn't just Kobe shooting more efficiently. He was more well rounded in the regular season. He got his teammates involved a little more and was a good defender. His all around game was developing a little more and then in the Finals we got none of that.

To be fair to Kobe, in the regular season he was, A) Not dealing with his #2 and #3 options in Payton and Malone being severely hampered by injury, or B) Facing the greatest defense of the modern era by far. For Kobe to have even come close to playing at his regular season level vs. those Pistons, would have been completely remarkable. And again, the games were so uncompetititve, that it's hard to believe that even with Kobe at his regular season level that the Lakers would have been within reach of Detroit.

[kobeunderbite]

You seem to be underestimating how good Kobe was i the regular season and how bad he was in that finals. If he played up to his regular season level those games would have been a lot closer than you think. Do i think they win? Probably not but they would have been closer late and who knows what happens then.

I won't do the math again, but I can easily project that Kobe shooting at his regular season level (46%+) would account for about 10-12 more made baskets over the course of 5 games in the series. Not exactly game-changing. I'm aware that there is more to the game than one's FG%, but given how not-close the losses were, it's silly to say that Kobe rising from playing poorly to simply playing at his regular season level would make those games even somewhat close. And I know full-well how great Kobe was in the regular season. Perhaps you're underestimating how uncompetitive the finals were.

Additionally, there was good reason for Kobe's struggles, namely a historically dominant defense in Detroit, the likes of which we have not seen since.

Their were a great defense. No questions there. But they played everybody straight up until they were deep in the paint to rotate. Kobe can't blame doubles for shitting the bed.

Kobe certainly didn't 'shit the bed'. He played poorly, but you're being a tad harsh. At his routine 45%, he's hitting less than 2 shots more per game than he did.

[vcsgrizzfan]

I won't do the math again, but I can easily project that Kobe shooting at his regular season level (46%+) would account for about 10-12 more made baskets over the course of 5 games in the series. Not exactly game-changing. I'm aware that there is more to the game than one's FG%, but given how not-close the losses were, it's silly to say that Kobe rising from playing poorly to simply playing at his regular season level would make those games even somewhat close. And I know full-well how great Kobe was in the regular season. Perhaps you're underestimating how uncompetitive the finals were.

Additionally, there was good reason for Kobe's struggles, namely a historically dominant defense in Detroit, the likes of which we have not seen since.

Their were a great defense. No questions there. But they played everybody straight up until they were deep in the paint to rotate. Kobe can't blame doubles for shitting the bed.

Kobe certainly didn't 'shit the bed'. He played poorly, but you're being a tad harsh. At his routine 45%, he's hitting less than 2 shots more per game than he did.

In a small sample size, it doesn't show up that much, but do you have any idea how big a difference 2 made shots or 4 points a game is? It's probably about 15-20 wins.

Bush4Ever could give a better breakdown but shrugging that off is the stuff of idiots.

No matter how you slice it, Kobe shit the bed.

[kobeunderbite]

Their were a great defense. No questions there. But they played everybody straight up until they were deep in the paint to rotate. Kobe can't blame doubles for shitting the bed.

Kobe certainly didn't 'shit the bed'. He played poorly, but you're being a tad harsh. At his routine 45%, he's hitting less than 2 shots more per game than he did.

In a small sample size, it doesn't show up that much, but do you have any idea how big a difference 2 made shots or 4 points a game is. It's probably about 20 wins.

Bush4Ever could give a better breakdown but shrugging that off is the stuff of idiots.

My point still remains valid. He shot 38.1%, which is poor, but not completely terrible given the fact that Detroit was playing defense at a level that we have not seen in a long time, and Kobe was burdened with carrying an offense that had an embarrassing supporting cast 3-12 for a Finals team.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Kobe certainly didn't 'shit the bed'. He played poorly, but you're being a tad harsh. At his routine 45%, he's hitting less than 2 shots more per game than he did.

In a small sample size, it doesn't show up that much, but do you have any idea how big a difference 2 made shots or 4 points a game is. It's probably about 20 wins.

Bush4Ever could give a better breakdown but shrugging that off is the stuff of idiots.

My point still remains valid. He shot 38.1%, which is poor, but not completely terrible given the fact that Detroit was playing defense at a level that we have not seen in a long time, and Kobe was burdened with carrying an offense that had an embarrassing supporting cast 3-12 for a Finals team.

If it helps you sleep at night.

LNS is not in denial. He got the order right. Kobe shitting the bed, Payton getting old almost overnight and the Malone injury.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Underbite getting beat-down like a drum trying to defend Kobe's all-time worst Finals performance in 2004.

[LNS]

Did tdk really ask why Kobe is on the list of candidates?

I'm tempted to kick his drunk ass off the Bulls fanbase for that one.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Shaq shot a STAGGERING 63% in the 2004 Finals, and averaged 27-PPG against that vaunted Pistons' Defense; however thanks to Chucky going into KoMe mode, the Big Fella attempted only 16.8 FGA per game.

Chucky CLEARLY didn't accept his true role as the second-fiddle... that's the main reason why the Lakers got curb-stomped.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Did tdk really ask why Kobe is on the list of candidates?

I'm tempted to kick his drunk ass off the Bulls fanbase for that one.

Only a blithering idiot (or a delusional Kobe Kid) thinks Kobe's belongs in the discussion for 7th greatest player of all-time. I mean, if that's the case then John Havlicek is Top 5 material easy.

[876Stephen]

Shaq shot a STAGGERING 63% in the 2004 Finals, and averaged 27-PPG against that vaunted Pistons' Defense; however thanks to Chucky going into KoMe mode, the Big Fella attempted only 16.8 FGA per game.

Chucky CLEARLY didn't accept his true role as the second-fiddle... that's the main reason why the Lakers got curb-stomped.

That is true but it's just not that simple. Shaq played a role as well for being a malcontent throughout the entire regular season.

[LNS]

Did tdk really ask why Kobe is on the list of candidates?

I'm tempted to kick his drunk ass off the Bulls fanbase for that one.

Only a blithering idiot (or a delusional Kobe Kid) thinks Kobe's belongs in the discussion for 7th greatest player of all-time. I mean, if that's the case then John Havlicek is Top 5 material easy.

You have fucking GEORGE MIKAN on your shit list, gramps. Your hate for Kobe is legendary and your opinion in this thread is worthless.

[kobeunderbite]

In a small sample size, it doesn't show up that much, but do you have any idea how big a difference 2 made shots or 4 points a game is. It's probably about 20 wins.

Bush4Ever could give a better breakdown but shrugging that off is the stuff of idiots.

My point still remains valid. He shot 38.1%, which is poor, but not completely terrible given the fact that Detroit was playing defense at a level that we have not seen in a long time, and Kobe was burdened with carrying an offense that had an embarrassing supporting cast 3-12 for a Finals team.

If it helps you sleep at night.

LNS is not in denial. He got the order right. Kobe shitting the bed, Payton getting old almost overnight and the Malone injury.

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.

In any case, I'm still having a hard time figuring out how anyone could rank Duncan ahead of Kobe.