True/False: The NBA has less talent now than years prior.

[wailuaFC]

Maybe you should watch him play lol.

The center position has evolved. Go take a peek at how players like Kendick Perkins and Tiago Splitter end up being liabilities on their teams.

Still cant believe that guy got a raise after he shit the bed in the finals

Who else can they sign? The options aren't unlimited.

Im ok with them resigning him, but what the hell did he do to deserve a raise? He and ginobli cost them the series

[l3bron]

How many 6'-11 255 pound guys in todays game can do anymore than he can? This era is pathetic for centers.

Maybe you should watch him play lol.

The center position has evolved. Go take a peek at how players like Kendick Perkins and Tiago Splitter end up being liabilities on their teams.

but yet both are still starters.

Because big bodies are still a valuable commodity in basketball, that hasn't changed.

The center position is every bit as good as it was in the 80's and 90's. It may not be as top heavy and today's rules don't allow bigs to put up the same production as bigs put up in the 90's but as a collective whole it's every bit as good. Anyone who says otherwise has a very limited grasp of basketball.

[Y2K]

What about the emergence of the stretch 4? Or the adoption of the corner 3? Or the evolution of defensive schemes forcing teams to shoot long inefficient 2-pointers (the staple of ugly 90's basketball)?

And I hope you're not referring to the removing of handchecking (which was instituted WHILE Jordan was in the league) with your latter comment. I can't think of a bigger lie told in sports than the impact of handchecking in basketball.

The stretch 4 had been totally blown out of proportion. There aren't many players who fit that mold for it to be as talked about as it is.


And hand checking was not really enforced until the 2004-05 season so really the rule did not exist.

But I'm talking about not being able to even touch the ball handler In the back court, And can only use your forearm below the FT line.

All 3 of these rules existed before 2004-05 but were not strictly enforced. By the time that they were, they were overly enforced, thus making this the "no contact" era.

Stretch 4 doesn't just pertain to Kevin Love and Ryan Anderson. It's teams creating offensive and defensive schemes while playing a swingmen at the 4 and enjoying all the luxuries that player brings to the position (speed, quickness, spacing, ball handling, passing, etc.) while not suffering from a weaker team defense (teams like San Antonio, Miami, Oklahoma, etc. all maintain elite defenses while routinely playing smallball.)

basically small ball. I Don't equate Paul Pierce playing the 4 that into the same equation of the stretch 4. That's small ball...which is a great strategy against the right team.

[Y2K]

Maybe you should watch him play lol.

The center position has evolved. Go take a peek at how players like Kendick Perkins and Tiago Splitter end up being liabilities on their teams.

but yet both are still starters.

Because big bodies are still a valuable commodity in basketball, that hasn't changed.

The center position is every bit as good as it was in the 80's and 90's. It may not be as top heavy and today's rules don't allow bigs to put up the same production as bigs put up in the 90's but as a collective whole it's every bit as good. Anyone who says otherwise has a very limited grasp of basketball.

Rondo it's not the dang rules. These guys aren't skilled, pivot big men because they simply aren't good enough compared to their predecessors. The C position is not on par or better than yesteryear.

[Y2K]

Still cant believe that guy got a raise after he shit the bed in the finals

Who else can they sign? The options aren't unlimited.

Im ok with them resigning him, but what the hell did he do to deserve a raise? He and ginobli cost them the series

That's just 1 series though.

[l3bron]

but yet both are still starters.

Because big bodies are still a valuable commodity in basketball, that hasn't changed.

The center position is every bit as good as it was in the 80's and 90's. It may not be as top heavy and today's rules don't allow bigs to put up the same production as bigs put up in the 90's but as a collective whole it's every bit as good. Anyone who says otherwise has a very limited grasp of basketball.

Rondo it's not the dang rules. These guys aren't skilled, pivot big men because they simply aren't his enough compared to their predecessors. The C position is not on par or better than yesteryear.

Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Noah, Cousins, Horford, Al Jefferson, etc.

Those look like some talented centers to me. There's no Hakeem or Shaq's but compare as a collective group I'd say they're every bit as good as what the 90's had to offer.

[Y2K]

Because big bodies are still a valuable commodity in basketball, that hasn't changed.

The center position is every bit as good as it was in the 80's and 90's. It may not be as top heavy and today's rules don't allow bigs to put up the same production as bigs put up in the 90's but as a collective whole it's every bit as good. Anyone who says otherwise has a very limited grasp of basketball.

Rondo it's not the dang rules. These guys aren't skilled, pivot big men because they simply aren't his enough compared to their predecessors. The C position is not on par or better than yesteryear.

Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Noah, Cousins, Horford, Al Jefferson, etc.

Those look like some talented centers to me. There's no Hakeem or Shaq's but compare as a collective group I'd say they're every bit as good as what the 90's had to offer.

You can name all of the centers in this league and I'll still say that they are not better or even on par with the Cs from the 90s. As a group, They are simply not.

[rileymartin]

Rondo it's not the dang rules. These guys aren't skilled, pivot big men because they simply aren't his enough compared to their predecessors. The C position is not on par or better than yesteryear.

Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Noah, Cousins, Horford, Al Jefferson, etc.

Those look like some talented centers to me. There's no Hakeem or Shaq's but compare as a collective group I'd say they're every bit as good as what the 90's had to offer.

You can name all of the centers in this league and I'll still say that they are not better or even on par with the Cs from the 90s. As a group, They are simply not.

The 90 C's may be better from a traditional sense, but the game has changed.

I mean, if you look around the league, other than height, todays players are bigger. I mean, how many centers back in the 90's were even as big as Carlos Boozer?

[l3bron]

Rondo it's not the dang rules. These guys aren't skilled, pivot big men because they simply aren't his enough compared to their predecessors. The C position is not on par or better than yesteryear.

Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Noah, Cousins, Horford, Al Jefferson, etc.

Those look like some talented centers to me. There's no Hakeem or Shaq's but compare as a collective group I'd say they're every bit as good as what the 90's had to offer.

You can name all of the centers in this league and I'll still say that they are not better or even on par with the Cs from the 90s. As a group, They are simply not.

Then that's your fault. It's clear they are.

[Deez]

Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Noah, Cousins, Horford, Al Jefferson, etc.

Those look like some talented centers to me. There's no Hakeem or Shaq's but compare as a collective group I'd say they're every bit as good as what the 90's had to offer.

You can name all of the centers in this league and I'll still say that they are not better or even on par with the Cs from the 90s. As a group, They are simply not.

The 90 C's may be better from a traditional sense, but the game has changed.

I mean, if you look around the league, other than height, todays players are bigger. I mean, how many centers back in the 90's were even as big as Carlos Boozer?

a whopping 6'-9" Probably a ton of them

[AbeVigodaLive]

Rondo it's not the dang rules. These guys aren't skilled, pivot big men because they simply aren't his enough compared to their predecessors. The C position is not on par or better than yesteryear.

Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Noah, Cousins, Horford, Al Jefferson, etc.

Those look like some talented centers to me. There's no Hakeem or Shaq's but compare as a collective group I'd say they're every bit as good as what the 90's had to offer.

You can name all of the centers in this league and I'll still say that they are not better or even on par with the Cs from the 90s. As a group, They are simply not.

In 1994, the NBA had 27 teams. Here are the starting centers/combos on 15 of them.

Benoit Benjamin
Tim Perry/Shawn Bradley
Kevin Duckworth
John Koncack
Cartwright/King/Purdue/Williams
Brickowski/Shayes
Polyniece/Anderson
Robert Parish (40)
Mike Brown/Luc Longley/Stacy King
Greg Dreiling/Lorenzo Williams/Sean Rooks
Cage/Sam Perkins (4.5 reb per game)
Oliver Miller/Mark West
Victor Alexander/Chris Gatling
Peplowski/Causwell/Polyniece
Elmore Spencer

Heck, Olden Polyniece and Stacy King were so good/bad... they each had more than a dozen starts for multiple crappy teams that season. It's amazing what nostalgia can do to our memories sometimes, huh?

[Deez]

Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Noah, Cousins, Horford, Al Jefferson, etc.

Those look like some talented centers to me. There's no Hakeem or Shaq's but compare as a collective group I'd say they're every bit as good as what the 90's had to offer.

You can name all of the centers in this league and I'll still say that they are not better or even on par with the Cs from the 90s. As a group, They are simply not.

In 1994, the NBA had 27 teams. Here are the starting centers/combos on 15 of them.

Benoit Benjamin
Tim Perry/Shawn Bradley
Kevin Duckworth
John Koncack
Cartwright/King/Purdue/Williams
Brickowski/Shayes
Polyniece/Anderson
Robert Parish (40)
Mike Brown/Luc Longley/Stacy King
Greg Dreiling/Lorenzo Williams/Sean Rooks
Cage/Sam Perkins (4.5 reb per game)
Oliver Miller/Mark West
Victor Alexander/Chris Gatling
Peplowski/Causwell/Polyniece
Elmore Spencer

Heck, Olden Polyniece and Stacy King were so good/bad... they each had more than a dozen starts for multiple crappy teams that season. It's amazing what nostalgia can do to our memories sometimes, huh?

Start adding Olajuwon, Robinson, Rik Smits, Ewing to name a few which would all humiliate this era.

[rileymartin]

You can name all of the centers in this league and I'll still say that they are not better or even on par with the Cs from the 90s. As a group, They are simply not.

The 90 C's may be better from a traditional sense, but the game has changed.

I mean, if you look around the league, other than height, todays players are bigger. I mean, how many centers back in the 90's were even as big as Carlos Boozer?

a whopping 6'-9" Probably a ton of them

How many 260+ pound centers were there in the 90's?

[AbeVigodaLive]

You can name all of the centers in this league and I'll still say that they are not better or even on par with the Cs from the 90s. As a group, They are simply not.

In 1994, the NBA had 27 teams. Here are the starting centers/combos on 15 of them.

Benoit Benjamin
Tim Perry/Shawn Bradley
Kevin Duckworth
John Koncack
Cartwright/King/Purdue/Williams
Brickowski/Shayes
Polyniece/Anderson
Robert Parish (40)
Mike Brown/Luc Longley/Stacy King
Greg Dreiling/Lorenzo Williams/Sean Rooks
Cage/Sam Perkins (4.5 reb per game)
Oliver Miller/Mark West
Victor Alexander/Chris Gatling
Peplowski/Causwell/Polyniece
Elmore Spencer

Heck, Olden Polyniece and Stacy King were so good/bad... they each had more than a dozen starts for multiple crappy teams that season. It's amazing what nostalgia can do to our memories sometimes, huh?

Start adding Olajuwon, Robinson, Rik Smits, Ewing to name a few which would all humiliate this era.

I think we've already established that the 90s had a higher ceiling for centers. That's not the argument. Y2gators said "as a group"... which means the bottom half have to be included too. And they are just as dreadful as they are today. In fact, is it fair to say the elite centers had a field day stomping these mediocre to bad centers all over the court?

[Deez]

In 1994, the NBA had 27 teams. Here are the starting centers/combos on 15 of them.

Benoit Benjamin
Tim Perry/Shawn Bradley
Kevin Duckworth
John Koncack
Cartwright/King/Purdue/Williams
Brickowski/Shayes
Polyniece/Anderson
Robert Parish (40)
Mike Brown/Luc Longley/Stacy King
Greg Dreiling/Lorenzo Williams/Sean Rooks
Cage/Sam Perkins (4.5 reb per game)
Oliver Miller/Mark West
Victor Alexander/Chris Gatling
Peplowski/Causwell/Polyniece
Elmore Spencer

Heck, Olden Polyniece and Stacy King were so good/bad... they each had more than a dozen starts for multiple crappy teams that season. It's amazing what nostalgia can do to our memories sometimes, huh?

Start adding Olajuwon, Robinson, Rik Smits, Ewing to name a few which would all humiliate this era.

I think we've already established that the 90s had a higher ceiling for centers. That's not the argument. Y2gators said "as a group"... which means the bottom half have to be included too. And they are just as dreadful as they are today. In fact, is it fair to say the elite centers had a field day stomping these mediocre to bad centers all over the court?

Yes I agree somewhat. If you got as a group both eras had weak centers but overall the 90's top centers are all superior to todays centers which would give the 90's an easy edge.

[Deez]

The 90 C's may be better from a traditional sense, but the game has changed.

I mean, if you look around the league, other than height, todays players are bigger. I mean, how many centers back in the 90's were even as big as Carlos Boozer?

a whopping 6'-9" Probably a ton of them

How many 260+ pound centers were there in the 90's?

So we go by weight only when determing centers? So a 6'8 260lb center in todays game would be better than a 7'-0" 255 pound center in the 90's or what?

[Repeat3peat]

The 90 C's may be better from a traditional sense, but the game has changed.

I mean, if you look around the league, other than height, todays players are bigger. I mean, how many centers back in the 90's were even as big as Carlos Boozer?

a whopping 6'-9" Probably a ton of them

How many 260+ pound centers were there in the 90's?

With today's PED's training and medicine....MANY would.(as if weight is the end -all-be-all).

Slightly bigger, stronger and faster doesn't = better basketball player.

Jebus get a clue.

[rileymartin]

a whopping 6'-9" Probably a ton of them

How many 260+ pound centers were there in the 90's?

With today's PED's training and medicine....MANY would.(as if weight is the end -all-be-all).

Slightly bigger, stronger and faster doesn't = better basketball player.

Jebus get a clue.

Depends on how you look at it.

Patrick Ewing was a pretty damn good post player when play in the post was a more integral part of the game.

But, was he really a better basketball player than Chris Bosh? In my opinion, Bosh has more SKILL than Ewing did. They just have different strengths.

[Repeat3peat]

How many 260+ pound centers were there in the 90's?

With today's PED's training and medicine....MANY would.(as if weight is the end -all-be-all).

Slightly bigger, stronger and faster doesn't = better basketball player.

Jebus get a clue.

Depends on how you look at it.

Patrick Ewing was a pretty damn good post player when play in the post was a more integral part of the game.

But, was he really a better basketball player than Chris Bosh? In my opinion, Bosh has more SKILL than Ewing did. They just have different strengths.

And a bench player like Detlef Schrempf or Toni Kukoc had more "skill" than the both of them....just different strengths.....add todays "supplements" and training to their diets and it's a different story. Imagine what a guy like Dale Davis would look like with today's advantages<---- just for a start.

As for Ewing....he was 10x the defender.....give him todays ped's and he likely looks more like a prime Shaq...same goes for a guy like Zo....then what...?

[l3bron]

How do you guys type up this nonsense?