True/False: The NBA has less talent now than years prior.

[l3bron]

We can thank Jordan fans and 90's Kool-Aid drinkers for drilling this nonsense into the general public. The backbone of their argument is consisted of the top-heavy talent the 90's was blessed with (they're usually arguing that the 90's had more talent than today's league.) And the casual eye may be prone to agree if shown a list of the players that were considered among the best at their positions (Jordan, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Malone, Hill, Penny, Pippen, Barkley, Ewing, etc.)

The problem here is this is all relative. Was there really significantly more talent at the top or was the league just a lot thinner at the bottom and more condusive to flashy numbers? I've discussed this before, but the NBA's talent depth was so, so much worse then.


Of course, none of these comparisons can be done from empirical surface observations or looking at raw stats side by side. It's way more complex than that, I just thought It would make for a good discussion.

[Sudanese Sensation]

Off the top of my head I would say the level of athleticism is slightly better now but the level of skill is slightly worse. Or maybe it's just a push...

But to suggest there was some golden era from which we have fallen contradicts everything we now about the evolution of organized sports.

[Smelters]

4 sure. Many players now should have stayed in college for some seasons. They had to make many rule changes because many players lack fundamentals and skills.

[ripper76]

Talent is more spread out now. There are too many teams.

[Smelters]

Off the top of my head I would say the level of athleticism is slightly better now but the level of skill is slightly worse. Or maybe it's just a push...

But to suggest there was some golden era from which we have fallen contradicts everything we now about the evolution of organized sports.

The evolution of sports is to make every sport easier to get numbers so that there are conversations on social media sites.

[Havlicekstealsit]

I'd say the talent is a draw, but too many guys now rush to the league without improving their game. Instead of staying in college 2-4 years, they're mostly one and dones who reclassified in HS - and therefore have to work on their fundamentals via pro competition. Nerlens Noel is a good example of this, as he should be a college freshman this season.

Additionally the overall talent is diluted because you've got 30 teams and D-leagues to keep stockpiling. You've got about 500+ players rotating through that system, and many of whom will never amount to anything.

[l3bron]

4 sure. Many players now should have stayed in college for some seasons. They had to make many rule changes because many players lack fundamentals and skills.

They implemented these rules in the 90's. Was that a result of the league lacking talent outside of the top 25? Or because the players "lacked fundamentals?"

[l3bron]

I'd say the talent is a draw, but too many guys now rush to the league without improving their game. Instead of staying in college 2-4 years, they're mostly one and dones who reclassified in HS - and therefore have to work on their fundamentals via pro competition. Nerlens Noel is a good example of this, as he should be a college freshman this season.

Additionally the overall talent is diluted because you've got 30 teams and D-leagues to keep stockpiling. You've got about 500+ players rotating through that system, and many of whom will never amount to anything.

We've had the influx of European talent to counteract expansion.

What are these "fundamental skills" that get thrown around so casually yet never addressed? Can you shed some light on that?

[Smelters]

4 sure. Many players now should have stayed in college for some seasons. They had to make many rule changes because many players lack fundamentals and skills.

They implemented these rules in the 90's. Was that a result of the league lacking talent outside of the top 25? Or because the players "lacked fundamentals?"

Strangely enough they opened the lane in 2004 and really enforced the rules for defenders staying in the lane. add that with the soft foul calls and flagrant fouls, etc etc etc.

Players in the 90s faced way more contact than any of these players will ever feel, especially the early 90s.

PGs and other players who use the pick and roll and just dive down the lane would think twice if they knew someone was waiting to lay them out in the paint or even have the much better bigs then to compete with, in the lane.

[Y2K]

Talent is more spread out now. There are too many teams.

This right here.

[Y2K]

I'd say the talent is a draw, but too many guys now rush to the league without improving their game. Instead of staying in college 2-4 years, they're mostly one and dones who reclassified in HS - and therefore have to work on their fundamentals via pro competition. Nerlens Noel is a good example of this, as he should be a college freshman this season.

Additionally the overall talent is diluted because you've got 30 teams and D-leagues to keep stockpiling. You've got about 500+ players rotating through that system, and many of whom will never amount to anything.

This will only change when the NBA GMs stop drafting these players.

[Havlicekstealsit]

I'd say the talent is a draw, but too many guys now rush to the league without improving their game. Instead of staying in college 2-4 years, they're mostly one and dones who reclassified in HS - and therefore have to work on their fundamentals via pro competition. Nerlens Noel is a good example of this, as he should be a college freshman this season.

Additionally the overall talent is diluted because you've got 30 teams and D-leagues to keep stockpiling. You've got about 500+ players rotating through that system, and many of whom will never amount to anything.

We've had the influx of European talent to counteract expansion.

What are these "fundamental skills" that get thrown around so casually yet never addressed? Can you shed some light on that?

Just off the top of my head - shooters moving without the ball. Ray Allen was a master at this in his prime, but too many offenses have shooters just standing around.

PGs who bring the ball up the sides instead of the middle. That's one of easiest ways to get trapped.

Boxing out and other low-box footwork for both offense and defense.

Following your shot. Players rarely do this anymore outside the paint. I call it the chuck and backpedal.

Missed midrange jumpers and the ability to transition back on D. Too many players admiring their shot and not hustling back to catch their man.


Like I said, players are looking to bypass these in development by only playing college ball for a year, or even not at all like Brandon Jennings. At the college level, we're deep into a generation of players who are more concerned about their individual outcome than the collective (team) one. You want to work on becoming the better player, or just a better draft pick?

[Y2K]

I'd say the talent is a draw, but too many guys now rush to the league without improving their game. Instead of staying in college 2-4 years, they're mostly one and dones who reclassified in HS - and therefore have to work on their fundamentals via pro competition. Nerlens Noel is a good example of this, as he should be a college freshman this season.

Additionally the overall talent is diluted because you've got 30 teams and D-leagues to keep stockpiling. You've got about 500+ players rotating through that system, and many of whom will never amount to anything.

We've had the influx of European talent to counteract expansion.

What are these "fundamental skills" that get thrown around so casually yet never addressed? Can you shed some light on that?

And a depreciation of the collegiate players not being pro-ready has counteracted that.

[Smelters]

I'd say the talent is a draw, but too many guys now rush to the league without improving their game. Instead of staying in college 2-4 years, they're mostly one and dones who reclassified in HS - and therefore have to work on their fundamentals via pro competition. Nerlens Noel is a good example of this, as he should be a college freshman this season.

Additionally the overall talent is diluted because you've got 30 teams and D-leagues to keep stockpiling. You've got about 500+ players rotating through that system, and many of whom will never amount to anything.

We've had the influx of European talent to counteract expansion.

What are these "fundamental skills" that get thrown around so casually yet never addressed? Can you shed some light on that?

Just off the top of my head - shooters moving without the ball. Ray Allen was a master at this in his prime, but too many offenses have shooters just standing around.

PGs who bring the ball up the sides instead of the middle. That's one of easiest ways to get trapped.

Boxing out and other low-box footwork for both offense and defense.

Following your shot. Players rarely do this anymore outside the paint. I call it the chuck and backpedal.

Missed midrange jumpers and the ability to transition back on D. Too many players admiring their shot and not hustling back to catch their man.


Like I said, players are looking to bypass these in development by only playing college ball for a year, or even not at all like Brandon Jennings. At the college level, we're deep into a generation of players who are more concerned about their individual outcome than the collective (team) one. You want to work on becoming the better player, or just a better draft pick?

Wow we agree on something besides Havlicek being a great baller.

[Smelters]

I'd say the talent is a draw, but too many guys now rush to the league without improving their game. Instead of staying in college 2-4 years, they're mostly one and dones who reclassified in HS - and therefore have to work on their fundamentals via pro competition. Nerlens Noel is a good example of this, as he should be a college freshman this season.

Additionally the overall talent is diluted because you've got 30 teams and D-leagues to keep stockpiling. You've got about 500+ players rotating through that system, and many of whom will never amount to anything.

We've had the influx of European talent to counteract expansion.

What are these "fundamental skills" that get thrown around so casually yet never addressed? Can you shed some light on that?

We've had the influx of European talent to counteract expansion.

Flopping and soft play doesn't help your cause.

[Y2K]

I'd say the talent is a draw, but too many guys now rush to the league without improving their game. Instead of staying in college 2-4 years, they're mostly one and dones who reclassified in HS - and therefore have to work on their fundamentals via pro competition. Nerlens Noel is a good example of this, as he should be a college freshman this season.

Additionally the overall talent is diluted because you've got 30 teams and D-leagues to keep stockpiling. You've got about 500+ players rotating through that system, and many of whom will never amount to anything.

We've had the influx of European talent to counteract expansion.

What are these "fundamental skills" that get thrown around so casually yet never addressed? Can you shed some light on that?

Just off the top of my head - shooters moving without the ball. Ray Allen was a master at this in his prime, but too many offenses have shooters just standing around.

PGs who bring the ball up the sides instead of the middle. That's one of easiest ways to get trapped.

Boxing out and other low-box footwork for both offense and defense.

Following your shot. Players rarely do this anymore outside the paint. I call it the chuck and backpedal.

Missed midrange jumpers and the ability to transition back on D. Too many players admiring their shot and not hustling back to catch their man.


Like I said, players are looking to bypass these in development by only playing college ball for a year, or even not at all like Brandon Jennings. At the college level, we're deep into a generation of players who are more concerned about their individual outcome than the collective (team) one. You want to work on becoming the better player, or just a better draft pick?

The bulk of the big men can't even post up and be legit scorers. The main bigs who do score rely far more on athleticism, not skill.

[Y2K]

I'd say the talent is a draw, but too many guys now rush to the league without improving their game. Instead of staying in college 2-4 years, they're mostly one and dones who reclassified in HS - and therefore have to work on their fundamentals via pro competition. Nerlens Noel is a good example of this, as he should be a college freshman this season.

Additionally the overall talent is diluted because you've got 30 teams and D-leagues to keep stockpiling. You've got about 500+ players rotating through that system, and many of whom will never amount to anything.

We've had the influx of European talent to counteract expansion.

What are these "fundamental skills" that get thrown around so casually yet never addressed? Can you shed some light on that?

We've had the influx of European talent to counteract expansion.

Flopping and soft play doesn't help your cause.

Can someone name 5 elite or even all-star Euros that have entered the NBA since 2005.

[kobeunderbite]

Kobe faced the toughest competition the league has ever seen, and dominated.

[steveo]

We've had the influx of European talent to counteract expansion.

What are these "fundamental skills" that get thrown around so casually yet never addressed? Can you shed some light on that?

Just off the top of my head - shooters moving without the ball. Ray Allen was a master at this in his prime, but too many offenses have shooters just standing around.

PGs who bring the ball up the sides instead of the middle. That's one of easiest ways to get trapped.

Boxing out and other low-box footwork for both offense and defense.

Following your shot. Players rarely do this anymore outside the paint. I call it the chuck and backpedal.

Missed midrange jumpers and the ability to transition back on D. Too many players admiring their shot and not hustling back to catch their man.


Like I said, players are looking to bypass these in development by only playing college ball for a year, or even not at all like Brandon Jennings. At the college level, we're deep into a generation of players who are more concerned about their individual outcome than the collective (team) one. You want to work on becoming the better player, or just a better draft pick?

The bulk of the big men can't even post up and be legit scorers. The main bigs who do score rely far more on athleticism, not skill.

You know it's bad when players are paying The Dream $100K for 2 weeks worth of lessons/training in posting up.

[Havlicekstealsit]

You know it's bad when players are paying The Dream $100K for 2 weeks worth of lessons/training in posting up.

But then you see absolutely zero change to their game after such lessons. With all the help Dwight has had in his career (Kareem, Hakeem, McHale - some of the best post guys in history), he still has the exact same yawn-bored repetoire.