Curry is in another realm as a scorer...

[Max]

It's such a tight window, but Westbrook and harden are better at basketball than Curry.

Plain and simple.

[rtiff68]

To be fair though, you did state the following:

The thing about Curry is that he's a far better catch and shoot player than he is at any other facet of offense. Usually those type of players aren't held to the highest standard because they don't draw high frequency of fouls and don't command the highest level of attention in an opposing team's defensive game plan

...and, to be perfectly honest, that couldn't be further from the truth. Curry's quick release, handle (which has improved dramatically over the years), ability to create his own shot, and court vision/passing ability is really what he is best at. You didn't call him Kyle Korver, but claiming "catch and shoot" is what he's best at is simply the opposite of the truth, and selling him short in a wide variety of areas.

As for commanding the highest level of an opposing team's game plan, I would argue that Curry's skill set makes the Warriors more difficult to game plan for defensively than Harden's does. Harden is a good shooter, but at the end of the day he wants to use his snakey craftiness (for lack of a better term) to get to the rim and/or draw fouls (which he does better than any other player in the game). Game planning for guys like Harden, LeBron, Kobe, Westbrook, etc. is relatively simple, it's just not easy (because they are/were so ridiculously good): you want to force them to take as many long, contested jumpers as possible.

With Curry, what strategy do you even attempt? There's a reason why the Warriors are offensively dominant when he's on the floor, and fall off so precipitously in that regard when he's on the bench. His ridiculous range and ability to shoot off balance and off of the dribble stretches perimeter defenses like no other player in the league does, and when you pair that with his passing and vision, you have choose between giving him the space to shoot, or leaving driving lanes wide open for cutters.

I think one could make a strong argument that Harden is a better scorer than Curry, but there's no question in my mind that a Curry led team is more difficult for opposing teams to defend than a Harden led team.

Well stated. Now, here's my point:

When I see that 55% of a player's made 3pt FGs are assisted by others, that's catching and shooting. that # is much higher in other seasons. He also knows how to get himself open and use that quick release so it is an added luxury that the warriors have in him.

Catch and shoot, IMHO, is still what he does best. That isn't to say that he is not great at other things because he definitely is and what he's but great at, he's improving in. It isn't to ssy that u are wrong, rtiff68.

I just don't see him as a guy that would have the same effect on an offense if he's playing with lesser tools. He's just not crafty enough when the shots aren't falling for him.

The 55% number loses a little validity when you take it into context. Steve Kerr's motion offense has the Warriors leading the league in AsFG%, so every player on their roster is going to have numbers that look like that. In addition, in '12/'13, when Curry set the single season record for made 3's while also shooting an astonishing 45% from deep, only 41% of his shots were assisted (in Jackson's isolation heavy offense). The Warriors made the playoffs in the WC that year and advanced to the 2nd round starting Curry, Lee, 2 rookies (Barnes and Ezeli), and a 2nd year player (Thompson).

I still have a hard time seeing how one can classify Curry as being best at catch and shoot when you consider the above, his assist totals the past 3 seasons, etc.

[TheSaboteur]

Well stated. Now, here's my point:

When I see that 55% of a player's made 3pt FGs are assisted by others, that's catching and shooting. that # is much higher in other seasons. He also knows how to get himself open and use that quick release so it is an added luxury that the warriors have in him.

Catch and shoot, IMHO, is still what he does best. That isn't to say that he is not great at other things because he definitely is and what he's but great at, he's improving in. It isn't to ssy that u are wrong, rtiff68.

I just don't see him as a guy that would have the same effect on an offense if he's playing with lesser tools. He's just not crafty enough when the shots aren't falling for him.

Steph Curry's last three seasons:
45.6% assisted
61.4% assisted
78.2% assisted

I don't think it's fair to say the 55% number is much higher than previous seasons. In any case, I don't think 55% is that high, certainly not high enough to say that catching and shooting is his primary strength.

Let's look at other players:
This year:
Harden: 47.7%
LeBron: 49.4%
Kyrie: 57.6%
Lillard: 55.9%
Monta: 70.8%
Durant: 65.6%
Kobe: 46.3%

Klay: 89.1%
Wes Matthews: 87.7%
Korver: 96.0%

Curry doesn't stick out much from that first group of players, a little higher than guys like Harden and LeBron, who are better at going to the rim. In any case, none of those players are players you would never really mention catching and shooting as their main strength. I would expect a number similar to what the last three guys put up when specifically pointing out a player's catching and shooting game. Therefore, I disagree with your analysis.

[TheSaboteur]

To be fair though, you did state the following:

The thing about Curry is that he's a far better catch and shoot player than he is at any other facet of offense. Usually those type of players aren't held to the highest standard because they don't draw high frequency of fouls and don't command the highest level of attention in an opposing team's defensive game plan

...and, to be perfectly honest, that couldn't be further from the truth. Curry's quick release, handle (which has improved dramatically over the years), ability to create his own shot, and court vision/passing ability is really what he is best at. You didn't call him Kyle Korver, but claiming "catch and shoot" is what he's best at is simply the opposite of the truth, and selling him short in a wide variety of areas.

As for commanding the highest level of an opposing team's game plan, I would argue that Curry's skill set makes the Warriors more difficult to game plan for defensively than Harden's does. Harden is a good shooter, but at the end of the day he wants to use his snakey craftiness (for lack of a better term) to get to the rim and/or draw fouls (which he does better than any other player in the game). Game planning for guys like Harden, LeBron, Kobe, Westbrook, etc. is relatively simple, it's just not easy (because they are/were so ridiculously good): you want to force them to take as many long, contested jumpers as possible.

With Curry, what strategy do you even attempt? There's a reason why the Warriors are offensively dominant when he's on the floor, and fall off so precipitously in that regard when he's on the bench. His ridiculous range and ability to shoot off balance and off of the dribble stretches perimeter defenses like no other player in the league does, and when you pair that with his passing and vision, you have choose between giving him the space to shoot, or leaving driving lanes wide open for cutters.

I think one could make a strong argument that Harden is a better scorer than Curry, but there's no question in my mind that a Curry led team is more difficult for opposing teams to defend than a Harden led team.

Well stated. Now, here's my point:

When I see that 55% of a player's made 3pt FGs are assisted by others, that's catching and shooting. that # is much higher in other seasons. He also knows how to get himself open and use that quick release so it is an added luxury that the warriors have in him.

Catch and shoot, IMHO, is still what he does best. That isn't to say that he is not great at other things because he definitely is and what he's but great at, he's improving in. It isn't to ssy that u are wrong, rtiff68.

I just don't see him as a guy that would have the same effect on an offense if he's playing with lesser tools. He's just not crafty enough when the shots aren't falling for him.

The 55% number loses a little validity when you take it into context. Steve Kerr's motion offense has the Warriors leading the league in AsFG%, so every player on their roster is going to have numbers that look like that. In addition, in '12/'13, when Curry set the single season record for made 3's while also shooting an astonishing 45% from deep, only 41% of his shots were assisted (in Jackson's isolation heavy offense). The Warriors made the playoffs in the WC that year and advanced to the 2nd round starting Curry, Lee, 2 rookies (Barnes and Ezeli), and a 2nd year player (Thompson).

I still have a hard time seeing how one can classify Curry as being best at catch and shoot when you consider the above, his assist totals the past 3 seasons, etc.

Hmm, where did you get 43%? I'm looking here: http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/s ... on=2012-13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rtiff68]

Well stated. Now, here's my point:

When I see that 55% of a player's made 3pt FGs are assisted by others, that's catching and shooting. that # is much higher in other seasons. He also knows how to get himself open and use that quick release so it is an added luxury that the warriors have in him.

Catch and shoot, IMHO, is still what he does best. That isn't to say that he is not great at other things because he definitely is and what he's but great at, he's improving in. It isn't to ssy that u are wrong, rtiff68.

I just don't see him as a guy that would have the same effect on an offense if he's playing with lesser tools. He's just not crafty enough when the shots aren't falling for him.

The 55% number loses a little validity when you take it into context. Steve Kerr's motion offense has the Warriors leading the league in AsFG%, so every player on their roster is going to have numbers that look like that. In addition, in '12/'13, when Curry set the single season record for made 3's while also shooting an astonishing 45% from deep, only 41% of his shots were assisted (in Jackson's isolation heavy offense). The Warriors made the playoffs in the WC that year and advanced to the 2nd round starting Curry, Lee, 2 rookies (Barnes and Ezeli), and a 2nd year player (Thompson).

I still have a hard time seeing how one can classify Curry as being best at catch and shoot when you consider the above, his assist totals the past 3 seasons, etc.

Hmm, where did you get 43%? I'm looking here: http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/s ... on=2012-13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I looked at 82games, and I changed it to 41% after double checking. I'm posting from my phone from bed and am going to crash, but I'll double check all of the numbers tomorrow.

Regardless, I think the point stands.

[TheSaboteur]

The 55% number loses a little validity when you take it into context. Steve Kerr's motion offense has the Warriors leading the league in AsFG%, so every player on their roster is going to have numbers that look like that. In addition, in '12/'13, when Curry set the single season record for made 3's while also shooting an astonishing 45% from deep, only 41% of his shots were assisted (in Jackson's isolation heavy offense). The Warriors made the playoffs in the WC that year and advanced to the 2nd round starting Curry, Lee, 2 rookies (Barnes and Ezeli), and a 2nd year player (Thompson).

I still have a hard time seeing how one can classify Curry as being best at catch and shoot when you consider the above, his assist totals the past 3 seasons, etc.

Hmm, where did you get 43%? I'm looking here: http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/s ... on=2012-13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I looked at 82games, and I changed it to 41% after double checking. I'm posting from my phone from bed and am going to crash, but I'll double check all of the numbers tomorrow.

Regardless, I think the point stands.

The point definitely stands. Edit: Oh I see, you were looking at all his field goals, not just three pointers.

[Y2K]

Well stated. Now, here's my point:

When I see that 55% of a player's made 3pt FGs are assisted by others, that's catching and shooting. that # is much higher in other seasons. He also knows how to get himself open and use that quick release so it is an added luxury that the warriors have in him.

Catch and shoot, IMHO, is still what he does best. That isn't to say that he is not great at other things because he definitely is and what he's but great at, he's improving in. It isn't to ssy that u are wrong, rtiff68.

I just don't see him as a guy that would have the same effect on an offense if he's playing with lesser tools. He's just not crafty enough when the shots aren't falling for him.

Steph Curry's last three seasons:
45.6% assisted
61.4% assisted
78.2% assisted

I don't think it's fair to say the 55% number is much higher than previous seasons. In any case, I don't think 55% is that high, certainly not high enough to say that catching and shooting is his primary strength.

Let's look at other players:
This year:
Harden: 47.7%
LeBron: 49.4%
Kyrie: 57.6%
Lillard: 55.9%
Monta: 70.8%
Durant: 65.6%
Kobe: 46.3%

Klay: 89.1%
Wes Matthews: 87.7%
Korver: 96.0%

Curry doesn't stick out much from that first group of players, a little higher than guys like Harden and LeBron, who are better at going to the rim. In any case, none of those players are players you would never really mention catching and shooting as their main strength. I would expect a number similar to what the last three guys put up when specifically pointing out a player's catching and shooting game. Therefore, I disagree with your analysis.

I didn't say that 55% was higher in other seasons. I said that his %assisted # was higher in other seasons, such as the ones that you posted.

And you have to remember that Curry is the main ball-handler so I'm only comparing him to guys who are primary ball handlers for their respective team. 8% is a pretty good gap between he and Harden.

[Y2K]

To be fair though, you did state the following:

The thing about Curry is that he's a far better catch and shoot player than he is at any other facet of offense. Usually those type of players aren't held to the highest standard because they don't draw high frequency of fouls and don't command the highest level of attention in an opposing team's defensive game plan

...and, to be perfectly honest, that couldn't be further from the truth. Curry's quick release, handle (which has improved dramatically over the years), ability to create his own shot, and court vision/passing ability is really what he is best at. You didn't call him Kyle Korver, but claiming "catch and shoot" is what he's best at is simply the opposite of the truth, and selling him short in a wide variety of areas.

As for commanding the highest level of an opposing team's game plan, I would argue that Curry's skill set makes the Warriors more difficult to game plan for defensively than Harden's does. Harden is a good shooter, but at the end of the day he wants to use his snakey craftiness (for lack of a better term) to get to the rim and/or draw fouls (which he does better than any other player in the game). Game planning for guys like Harden, LeBron, Kobe, Westbrook, etc. is relatively simple, it's just not easy (because they are/were so ridiculously good): you want to force them to take as many long, contested jumpers as possible.

With Curry, what strategy do you even attempt? There's a reason why the Warriors are offensively dominant when he's on the floor, and fall off so precipitously in that regard when he's on the bench. His ridiculous range and ability to shoot off balance and off of the dribble stretches perimeter defenses like no other player in the league does, and when you pair that with his passing and vision, you have choose between giving him the space to shoot, or leaving driving lanes wide open for cutters.

I think one could make a strong argument that Harden is a better scorer than Curry, but there's no question in my mind that a Curry led team is more difficult for opposing teams to defend than a Harden led team.

Well stated. Now, here's my point:

When I see that 55% of a player's made 3pt FGs are assisted by others, that's catching and shooting. that # is much higher in other seasons. He also knows how to get himself open and use that quick release so it is an added luxury that the warriors have in him.

Catch and shoot, IMHO, is still what he does best. That isn't to say that he is not great at other things because he definitely is and what he's but great at, he's improving in. It isn't to ssy that u are wrong, rtiff68.

I just don't see him as a guy that would have the same effect on an offense if he's playing with lesser tools. He's just not crafty enough when the shots aren't falling for him.

The 55% number loses a little validity when you take it into context. Steve Kerr's motion offense has the Warriors leading the league in AsFG%, so every player on their roster is going to have numbers that look like that. In addition, in '12/'13, when Curry set the single season record for made 3's while also shooting an astonishing 45% from deep, only 41% of his shots were assisted (in Jackson's isolation heavy offense). The Warriors made the playoffs in the WC that year and advanced to the 2nd round starting Curry, Lee, 2 rookies (Barnes and Ezeli), and a 2nd year player (Thompson).

I still have a hard time seeing how one can classify Curry as being best at catch and shoot when you consider the above, his assist totals the past 3 seasons, etc.

Its simple to me: he isn't a Stockton, Magic, Paul or other high precision passer who is known for carving up defenses to pieces. That's not his greatest strength, not to say that he isn't good at it. Obviously shooting is his greatest strength.

But part of it, in which you have stated, is influenced by the offenses that he plays in. I'll definitely agree with that.