Does anyone remember when this was still a debate?

[Deez]

I was actually curious about how Lebron's midrange percentages compared to the league during that time, so I'll looked year-by-year in and around his prime (I'll top and bottom it 2009 through 2020) in order to double-check and test my perception of Lebron's midrange performance. All stats via BR.

2009:
Lebron shoots 45, 29, and 39 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 41, 40, 41 percent, respectively
Result: +4, -11, -2
Total (not weighted by attempts): -9

2010:
Lebron shoots 47, 34, and 40 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 42, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +7, -6, +0
Total (not weighted by attempts): +1
Running Total: -8

2011:
Lebron shoots 46, 44, and 45 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 39, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +7, +4, +5
Total (not weighted by attempts): +16
Running Total: +8

2012:
Lebron shoots 48, 48, and 38 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 38, 39, 39 percent, respectively
Result: +10, +9, -1
Total (not weighted by attempts): +18
Running Total: +26

2013:
Lebron shoots 49, 42, and 45 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 38, 40, 39 percent, respectively
Result: +11, +2, +6
Total (not weighted by attempts): +19
Running Total: +45

2014:
Lebron shoots 55, 40, and 37 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 39, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +16, +0, -3
Total (not weighted by attempts): +13
Running Total: +58

2015:
Lebron shoots 41, 36, and 38 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 38, 40, 39 percent, respectively
Result: +3, -4, -1
Total (not weighted by attempts): -2
Running Total: +56

2016:
Lebron shoots 36, 35, and 40 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 40, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -4, -5, +0
Total (not weighted by attempts): -9
Running Total: +47

2017:
Lebron shoots 39, 44, and 31 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 41, 41, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -2, +3, -9
Total (not weighted by attempts): -8
Running Total: +39

2018:
Lebron shoots 38, 42, and 37 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 39, 42, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -1, +0, -3
Total (not weighted by attempts): -4
Running Total: +35

2019:
Lebron shoots 42, 45, and 34 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 40, 41, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +2, +4, -6
Total (not weighted by attempts): +0
Running Total: +35

2020:
Lebron shoots 34, 34, and 35 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 40, 42, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -6, -8, -5
Total (not weighted by attempts): -19
Running Total: +16

So in total a +16. Obviously, this is unweighted by attempts (within distance and across years) and different across the distances. Doing quick mental math on the specific distances:

3-10: +47
10-16: -12
16-3: -19

This is across 12 years. So roughly a +4, -1, -2 per year at those selected distances.

Fairly better at 3-10. Slightly below-average at 10-16 and 16-3pt. Pretty much as expected. Note that Lebron has only taken 28 percent of his shots in that 10-3pt range during his career, a good chunk of which has taken place during the analytics movement (or whatever you want to call it).

Being minus outside of 3 to 10, will not earn you goat status. So most years he was essentially not quite average at anything beyond his dunks. Cool. It is a never ending battle with letots over this. I’ll agree with the majority of the country on the goat. You do you

[wailuaFC]

I was actually curious about how Lebron's midrange percentages compared to the league during that time, so I'll looked year-by-year in and around his prime (I'll top and bottom it 2009 through 2020) in order to double-check and test my perception of Lebron's midrange performance. All stats via BR.

2009:
Lebron shoots 45, 29, and 39 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 41, 40, 41 percent, respectively
Result: +4, -11, -2
Total (not weighted by attempts): -9

2010:
Lebron shoots 47, 34, and 40 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 42, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +7, -6, +0
Total (not weighted by attempts): +1
Running Total: -8

2011:
Lebron shoots 46, 44, and 45 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 39, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +7, +4, +5
Total (not weighted by attempts): +16
Running Total: +8

2012:
Lebron shoots 48, 48, and 38 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 38, 39, 39 percent, respectively
Result: +10, +9, -1
Total (not weighted by attempts): +18
Running Total: +26

2013:
Lebron shoots 49, 42, and 45 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 38, 40, 39 percent, respectively
Result: +11, +2, +6
Total (not weighted by attempts): +19
Running Total: +45

2014:
Lebron shoots 55, 40, and 37 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 39, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +16, +0, -3
Total (not weighted by attempts): +13
Running Total: +58

2015:
Lebron shoots 41, 36, and 38 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 38, 40, 39 percent, respectively
Result: +3, -4, -1
Total (not weighted by attempts): -2
Running Total: +56

2016:
Lebron shoots 36, 35, and 40 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 40, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -4, -5, +0
Total (not weighted by attempts): -9
Running Total: +47

2017:
Lebron shoots 39, 44, and 31 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 41, 41, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -2, +3, -9
Total (not weighted by attempts): -8
Running Total: +39

2018:
Lebron shoots 38, 42, and 37 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 39, 42, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -1, +0, -3
Total (not weighted by attempts): -4
Running Total: +35

2019:
Lebron shoots 42, 45, and 34 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 40, 41, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +2, +4, -6
Total (not weighted by attempts): +0
Running Total: +35

2020:
Lebron shoots 34, 34, and 35 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 40, 42, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -6, -8, -5
Total (not weighted by attempts): -19
Running Total: +16

So in total a +16. Obviously, this is unweighted by attempts (within distance and across years) and different across the distances. Doing quick mental math on the specific distances:

3-10: +47
10-16: -12
16-3: -19

This is across 12 years. So roughly a +4, -1, -2 per year at those selected distances.

Fairly better at 3-10. Slightly below-average at 10-16 and 16-3pt. Pretty much as expected. Note that Lebron has only taken 28 percent of his shots in that 10-3pt range during his career, a good chunk of which has taken place during the analytics movement (or whatever you want to call it).

Being minus outside of 3 to 10, will not earn you goat status. So most years he was essentially not quite average at anything beyond his dunks. Cool. It is a never ending battle with letots over this. I’ll agree with the majority of the country on the goat. You do you

Admitting to following the heard vs having independent thought.

[Y2K]

I'm still not taking kobe over LeBron in any situation.

[Alex_Murphy]

some debated stats vs stats which i always knew that edge went to lebron but what i always lobbied was that Kobe was a better winner and more reliable as the clutch go to guy down the stretch. lebron is closing the gap on this debate with his longevity …

[thedangerouskitchen]

I was actually curious about how Lebron's midrange percentages compared to the league during that time, so I'll looked year-by-year in and around his prime (I'll top and bottom it 2009 through 2020) in order to double-check and test my perception of Lebron's midrange performance. All stats via BR.

2009:
Lebron shoots 45, 29, and 39 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 41, 40, 41 percent, respectively
Result: +4, -11, -2
Total (not weighted by attempts): -9

2010:
Lebron shoots 47, 34, and 40 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 42, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +7, -6, +0
Total (not weighted by attempts): +1
Running Total: -8

2011:
Lebron shoots 46, 44, and 45 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 39, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +7, +4, +5
Total (not weighted by attempts): +16
Running Total: +8

2012:
Lebron shoots 48, 48, and 38 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 38, 39, 39 percent, respectively
Result: +10, +9, -1
Total (not weighted by attempts): +18
Running Total: +26

2013:
Lebron shoots 49, 42, and 45 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 38, 40, 39 percent, respectively
Result: +11, +2, +6
Total (not weighted by attempts): +19
Running Total: +45

2014:
Lebron shoots 55, 40, and 37 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 39, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +16, +0, -3
Total (not weighted by attempts): +13
Running Total: +58

2015:
Lebron shoots 41, 36, and 38 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 38, 40, 39 percent, respectively
Result: +3, -4, -1
Total (not weighted by attempts): -2
Running Total: +56

2016:
Lebron shoots 36, 35, and 40 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 40, 40, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -4, -5, +0
Total (not weighted by attempts): -9
Running Total: +47

2017:
Lebron shoots 39, 44, and 31 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 41, 41, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -2, +3, -9
Total (not weighted by attempts): -8
Running Total: +39

2018:
Lebron shoots 38, 42, and 37 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 39, 42, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -1, +0, -3
Total (not weighted by attempts): -4
Running Total: +35

2019:
Lebron shoots 42, 45, and 34 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 40, 41, 40 percent, respectively
Result: +2, +4, -6
Total (not weighted by attempts): +0
Running Total: +35

2020:
Lebron shoots 34, 34, and 35 percent from 3-10, 10-16, and 16-3, respectively
The league averages that year were 40, 42, 40 percent, respectively
Result: -6, -8, -5
Total (not weighted by attempts): -19
Running Total: +16

So in total a +16. Obviously, this is unweighted by attempts (within distance and across years) and different across the distances. Doing quick mental math on the specific distances:

3-10: +47
10-16: -12
16-3: -19

This is across 12 years. So roughly a +4, -1, -2 per year at those selected distances.

Fairly better at 3-10. Slightly below-average at 10-16 and 16-3pt. Pretty much as expected. Note that Lebron has only taken 28 percent of his shots in that 10-3pt range during his career, a good chunk of which has taken place during the analytics movement (or whatever you want to call it).

Being minus outside of 3 to 10, will not earn you goat status. So most years he was essentially not quite average at anything beyond his dunks. Cool. It is a never ending battle with letots over this. I’ll agree with the majority of the country on the goat. You do you

... well said!

LeBron shoots 38% from beyond 3 feet from the basket for his career, 36% during the playoffs.

That's the Modern Era GOAT.

[manchild98]

In 28 elimination games Lebron averages 33.5, 10.4, 7.5 on 50% shooting (36% from 3). In 19 elimination games Kobe averaged 22.3, 5.8, 3.5 on 41% shooting (28% from 3).

Nostalgia is a disease.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

In 28 elimination games Lebron averages 33.5, 10.4, 7.5 on 50% shooting (36% from 3). In 19 elimination games Kobe averaged 22.3, 5.8, 3.5 on 41% shooting (28% from 3).

Nostalgia is a disease.

Nostalgia really is a disease. Jordan never missed an important shot, Bird made every three he ever took...blah, blah, blah.

Go back and watch "classic" games. They are dogshit compared to today. Crazy what nostalgia will make people believe.

[Bush4Ever.]

We don't have to guess at how (21st century) players performed in the clutch.

Since the late 90s, we've had possession-based data. All you need to do is develop a reasonable operational definition of clutch, and see how they performed on those possessions within that definition.

https://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM
https://82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

That's for 2009 and 2010, under the definition " 4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points", which seems reasonable to me. Of course, you have to compare like to like just like with any basketball statistic (no TDK, Rudy Gobert is not my first choice to shoot a three-pointer because his FG percentage is sky-high)

This was a long time ago, but my recollection was that Lebron was generally, but not always better than Kobe on a yearly basis when they were both star players, and that Kobe bounced around a bit but was generally considered "fine, but not maxing the scale" in clutch performance. But that's just my memory

But regardless of whatever the answer is, I don't trust anyone who doesn't immediately go to the data as a first step on this type of question.