This is how weak the 90's NBA was

[ElJorge]

See everyone? This is why autism is a spectrum. You get guys like Arty on one side and then you get guys like Bush on the other.

Not at all.

In 1992, Jordan averaged 30.1 PPG and Chris Mullin 25.6 (4.5 ppg difference).

Explain to me why he'd beat guys like Kevin Durant by 15 PPG now, when he beat Mullin less than five points a game smack in the middle of his prime.

I mean.. I don’t think MJ would average 45ppg? Your brain is creating arguments that I never posted

[Titan18]

He’s no Earl Boykins who thrived in “modern” nba but he was a crafty little bastard

[Bush4Ever.]

I mean.. I don’t think MJ would average 45ppg? Your brain is creating arguments that I never posted

There are people who unironically believe that.

There's no particular reason to suppose boomer ball players could up their shooting to the level of modern players.

The chasm is outrageously large. Literally shooting a handful of percentage points better and 5xing makes.

Even on *free throws*, the most conservative test imaginable (because it's the easiest shot-shot in basketball) modern players shoot better than boomers, by about 3.2 percent over 100s of thousands of attempts:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-le ... -by-decade

All the evidence points to them simply reeking and doing the best with the tools they had at the time. Which is perfectly fine, but it still blows.

[ElJorge]

Well shit I’m convinced then. Players from the 80s-90s would just never ever be competent from downtown… even if they had analytics and made it a focus night after night. They were just incapable or something-something.

Thanks

[Robceltsfan]

LNS: MJ would slice up defenses with more spacing (MJ averaged 37.1 PPG at one point in the 80's)

So do you think MJ would average more today or not?

[Bush4Ever.]

Well shit I’m convinced then. Players from the 80s-90s would just never ever be competent from downtown… even if they had analytics and made it a focus night after night. They were just incapable or something-something.

Thanks

Yes, 20 years of complete and utter failure point to that conclusion.

They shoot substantially worse on FTs, and shot a worse percentage on *premium* threes than modern players do on a combination of premium, normal, and complex threes that's 5xing makes.

"they couldn't do basic multiplication and division so they didn't take a modern analytics approach" explains why the attempts were low...but it has nothing to say about why the *percentages* were low.

If they had all this hidden ability, they would have shot at or actually better than (because they only shot premium threes) modern *percentages*. But they didn't.

It's not much more complicated than that.

[ElJorge]

LNS: MJ would slice up defenses with more spacing (MJ averaged 37.1 PPG at one point in the 80's)

So do you think MJ would average more today or not?

32-35ppg on very elite FG% (55%+/-). Averaging 40+ppg isn’t winning basketball and it’d also break him down physically with the quickness.

What are YOU suggesting here?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Why are the Modern Era fanboys/LeTots STILL pretending like the Commissioner, VP of Ops, and many current players/coaches didn't throw today's NBA under the bus ("specifically" pointing out how soft/weak the Defense is RELATIVE TO the 90's AND about how the rules today heavily favor the Offense)??

I mean, I understand the need to troll or to protect one's Era... but when the league ITSELF tells you this Era is inferior Defensively and caters heavily to the Offense, anyone denying it (ie; rob, bush, grizz, LMD, underbite, xombie, etc) just come out looking completely and utterly foolish.

You guys need to put this baby to rest already... you're starting to embarrass yourselves already.

No troll.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

LNS: MJ would slice up defenses with more spacing (MJ averaged 37.1 PPG at one point in the 80's)

So do you think MJ would average more today or not?

32-35ppg on very elite FG% (55%+/-). Averaging 40+ppg isn’t winning basketball and it’d also break him down physically with the quickness.

What are YOU suggesting here?

The percentage wouldn't be that high, especially for post first 3peat Jordan.

The inability to hit the 3 consistently would give him less open space than most nowadays and he wouldn't have a lot of the easy buckets that illegal defenses from back in the day gave him. I think low 30s and around 50-52% is my best guess.

[Bush4Ever.]

MJ's TS+ in Chicago was 108 (TS+ is TS normed to within-year).

That's what Jimmy Butler did in 2024.

Volume considerations aside, MJ was as differentiated from his peers in Chicago as Jimmy Butler was in 2024 in terms of strict efficiency.

[Titan18]

Looks like the BWGC found another made up stat they are fixated on

TS+ calculated by Marv from coolsportsblog.com which is the sum of something times by some random number divided by 14 and taken as a percentage of likihood Marv will get laid that Saturday

[thedangerouskitchen]

Why are the Modern Era fanboys/LeTots STILL pretending like the Commissioner, VP of Ops, and many current players/coaches didn't throw today's NBA under the bus ("specifically" pointing out how soft/weak the Defense is RELATIVE TO the 90's AND about how the rules today heavily favor the Offense)??

Spoiler:

PS: Grizz is such a meatball.

[Bush4Ever.]

"Handchecking made old school players miss free throws!"

-Titan and TDK

lol

[Robceltsfan]

LNS: MJ would slice up defenses with more spacing (MJ averaged 37.1 PPG at one point in the 80's)

So do you think MJ would average more today or not?

32-35ppg on very elite FG% (55%+/-). Averaging 40+ppg isn’t winning basketball and it’d also break him down physically with the quickness.

What are YOU suggesting here?

So he'd simply be at the high end of scoring....and not necessarily win scoring title after scoring title?

I can agree with this.

[thedangerouskitchen]

"Handchecking made old school players miss free throws!"

-Titan and TDK

lol

Why are you Modern Era fanboys/LeTots STILL pretending like the Commissioner, VP of Ops, and many current players/coaches didn't throw today's NBA under the bus ("specifically" pointing out how soft/weak the Defense is RELATIVE TO the 90's AND about how the rules today heavily favor the Offense)?

[LeBronMonsterDunk]

Has anyone ever explained why 80s/90s ballers didn't understand how overpowered the 3 point shot was, and why they shouldn't shoot long 2s (the worst shot in basketball)?

[ElJorge]

Looks like the BWGC found another made up stat they are fixated on

TS+ calculated by Marv from coolsportsblog.com which is the sum of something times by some random number divided by 14 and taken as a percentage of likihood Marv will get laid that Saturday

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

The advanced metrics are pretty easy to understand, and very powerful, if you have an IQ above room temperature. Just saying.

[ElJorge]

Has anyone ever explained why 80s/90s ballers didn't understand how overpowered the 3 point shot was, and why they shouldn't shoot long 2s (the worst shot in basketball)?

I don’t think advanced metrics for bball was even a thing back then. And when it did finally arrive there was probably the mindset of “I’ve won titles without using that nerdy shit so why should I change our approach to the game?”. Part stubbornness for sure. But I don’t agree that the players would’ve been unable to adjust their games with the right motivation. The Warriors raping the league woke a lot of teams up IMO.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Has anyone ever explained why 80s/90s ballers didn't understand how overpowered the 3 point shot was, and why they shouldn't shoot long 2s (the worst shot in basketball)?

I don’t think advanced metrics for bball was even a thing back then. And when it did finally arrive there was probably the mindset of “I’ve won titles without using that nerdy shit so why should I change our approach to the game?”. Part stubbornness for sure. But I don’t agree that the players would’ve been unable to adjust their games with the right motivation. The Warriors raping the league woke a lot of teams up IMO.

There are still a lot of people who don't understand and appreciate the value of advanced metrics and analytics, but it is a dwindling crowd. Every team has a department of guys that look at this stuff now.

When you boil it down to basics, it all makes perfectly good sense. If you can hit the 3 at something close to 37% of average, it is roughly equivalent to hitting 2s at 55.5%. That is obviously pretty sweet. But, you get the not insignificant benefit of making defenses guard far more court (guarding to 25 feet out is relatively much harder than guarding to 20 feet out) as it isn't a linear relationship, thereby creating more easy 2s as well. You also force defenses into way more rotations than was even imagined 20 years ago. Can you imagine a ton of the sloths of the 90s (guys like Oliver Miller, Ostertag, Country, Tractor) having to constantly switch on screen and rolls? It would be hilarious. They would have no hope.

A run of the mill pedestrian offense in today's NBA would just butcher 1990 defenses.