Jokic last night....

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Against the number 1 ranked defense in the NBA in 2023-2024, and against the DPOY Gobert, he put up 40, 7 and 13. Didn't matter if it was Gobert, Towns or Reid, he just shit all over whoever was guarding him.

The 40 was on 15 of 22 shooting, including 2 of 3 from deep on late in the shot clock attempts and 8 of 9 from the charity stripe. Absolutely crazy efficiency.

He put up 13 dimes. He threw 98 passes on the night, and had zero turnovers. Think about that!!!

Between his own points and his assists, Jokic was directly involved in 70 of his team's 112 points. Again, with zero turnovers.

Absolutely freaking crazy.

[CleveTown™]

Betta than Bird

[Robceltsfan]

Betta than Bird

And that's not even a shot at Bird...

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Betta than Bird

And that's not even a shot at Bird...

He can bully you in the post. He can finesse it off the glass like few have ever been able to do. He can pass from the elbow better than anyone I have ever seen and he can shoot it from deep when it is called for. I thought Shaq was the best C I had personally witnessed (never saw Russell and Wilt was on his last legs when I started watching the NBA), but Jokic is just a different animal. He is so offensively gifted and versatile it is ridiculous.

[Da Stars.]

Rodman or Pippen would have shut his ass down. Fact.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Rodman or Pippen would have shut his ass down. Fact.

I know some people who are delusional enough and stupid enough to believe that!

[Havlicekstealsit]

40 points, 10 dimes, and zero turnovers.

Only other person to do it in playoff history is Chris Paul.

[Alex_Murphy]

Without a doubt better than Larry bird but not better than prime Kobe Bryant

[Bush4Ever.]

Rodman or Pippen would have shut his ass down. Fact.

I know some people who are delusional enough and stupid enough to believe that!

Quick! Send up the signal!

[Sudanese Sensation]

Rodman or Pippen would have shut his ass down. Fact.

I know some people who are delusional enough and stupid enough to believe that!

Quick! Send up the signal!

Did Pippen ever guard the other team's five? And Rodman isn't going to scare Jokic.

[Bush4Ever.]

Did Pippen ever guard the other team's five? And Rodman isn't going to scare Jokic.

I think we had a thread a little bit ago talking about who the best person would be to guard Joker.

I think the discussion ended at a vote for Ben Wallace.

[PhutureDynasty]

Did Pippen ever guard the other team's five? And Rodman isn't going to scare Jokic.

I think we had a thread a little bit ago talking about who the best person would be to guard Joker.

I think the discussion ended at a vote for Ben Wallace.

It's definitely Ben Wallace.

[PhutureDynasty]

I'd love to see Bill Russell guard him.

Two of the smartest to play the game between him and Jokic.

[Bush4Ever.]

I'd love to see Bill Russell guard him.

Two of the smartest to play the game between him and Jokic.

Wilt was stronger and faster/quicker, but Joker has an infinitely more developed offensive game and moveset, so it would be interesting to watch. When I do watch old games from that matchup I'm always surprised how often Wilt just bailed Russell out by shooting shit fadaway jumpers and longer distance finger rolls when it didn't seem like he had to.

He'd be giving up 30-40 pounds as well.

Most likely he drops Joker's efficiency and volume to some degree, but there's only so much you can do against mega-legends, especially in situations where the opposition might be slightly less apt to double.

[Sudanese Sensation]

Did Pippen ever guard the other team's five? And Rodman isn't going to scare Jokic.

I think we had a thread a little bit ago talking about who the best person would be to guard Joker.

I think the discussion ended at a vote for Ben Wallace.

I have a hard time believing Ben Wallace is going to effectively guard someone who can shoot from beyond twenty two feet.

[PhutureDynasty]

I'd love to see Bill Russell guard him.

Two of the smartest to play the game between him and Jokic.

Wilt was stronger and faster/quicker, but Joker has an infinitely more developed offensive game and moveset, so it would be interesting to watch. When I do watch old games from that matchup I'm always surprised how often Wilt just bailed Russell out by shooting shit fadaway jumpers and longer distance finger rolls when it didn't seem like he had to.

He'd be giving up 30-40 pounds as well.

Most likely he drops Joker's efficiency and volume to some degree, but there's only so much you can do against mega-legends, especially in situations where the opposition might be slightly less apt to double.

*like*

I think Joker's game plan would definitely be to try and back him down and I could see him having some success there.

I feel like what Bill would help neutralize (to the extent that you can against another superstar) is Jokic's passing. Not that he won't have assists but he will struggle a bit more given how quick Bill was.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Did Pippen ever guard the other team's five? And Rodman isn't going to scare Jokic.

I think we had a thread a little bit ago talking about who the best person would be to guard Joker.

I think the discussion ended at a vote for Ben Wallace.

I have a hard time believing Ben Wallace is going to effectively guard someone who can shoot from beyond twenty two feet.

Nobody is going to guard him in every aspect, but I agree with Ben as the best choice I can think of from players I've witnessed play. He has "some" bulk to lessen the bullying in the post. He has great hands and quickness to help prevent entry passes to the Joker and pretty decent mobility to go out to the arc and hang with him there. I can't really think of anyone better.

[Bush4Ever.]

I have a hard time believing Ben Wallace is going to effectively guard someone who can shoot from beyond twenty two feet.

Compared to what though?

Joker is significantly more effective inside than outside in terms of scoring (the last three years, he's averaging 107 points per 100 threes and about 130 per 100 twos, with at-rim percentages on the level of peak Shaq).

If you can relegate him to being an outside shooter against single coverage (he took 66 percent of his shot this year 0-10 FT from the rim), you've done about as well as you can do.

All the passing stuff requires a team effort.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Lots of posters on this board remain in complete denial about the "Modern NBA"... especially meatball grizz, jizzin' all over himself over Joker when the man is clearly benefiting from today's weak and soft Defense:

"The rules really favor offense, in general, right now” - 4-time Defensive Player of the Year Rudy Gobert, 2024

"This (the All Star game) is what a lot of the regular-season games are starting to look like too." - LeFraud James, 2024

"People like to see people get 60 and 70 and do all that. How are you going to do that if somebody can be physical and be handsy and be aggressive in that way? So, I personally don't think that the balance is there." - Jrue Holiday, 2024

"It's harder to just clog the paint, which is what you really need to do against these top players. ... Offenses are just so spaced and wide-open that if you give these great guys space, they're almost impossible to guard." - Derrick White, 2024

"There was a point, I believe, In the late 90s, when the game became too physical... maybe it weighted too heavily on physicality where a big strong player could come in and prevent an incredibly skilled player from doing those kinds of things. A smaller player like Steph Curry, when you think of his ability to shoot and move to the paint, if guys can just bang him and knock him to the ground, as that was once the case in the league, I don't think that would be a better brand of basketball." - NBA Commissioner Adam Silver, 2024, when asked by Kevin Garnett about the lack of defense in the modern game, and why the league doesn't want to return to the aggressive defense of the '90s

But then again, what the hell does the NBA Commissioner and the actual players know about the game today, amirite??? It's the BWGC who we need to trust and believe because they have charts and graphs and fake-stats, and lots of other stuff and reasons.

[elmerjfudd]

Joel seems to do a good job against Jokic. And I’d think to have a guy that can challenge him while he defends makes things tough for him.