“We have to find the right balance” - Adam Silver reveals why physical defense is no longer evident in the modern NBA

[elartman1973]

According to Silver, the NBA has made it a point to lessen physical defense in order to give smaller and more skilled players a chance to showcase their skills.


https://www.basketballnetwork.net/lates ... modern-nba


Defense is weaker...confirmed
Players are just scoring more due to that. Stop thinking they are astronomically vastly superior

Suckers

So many kobeunderballs generation faggots on here, plus Bush and grizz OWNED

[Havlicekstealsit]

Scoring sells, usually across all team sports. I don't think defense is weaker per se they just can no longer do what they used to to impede offensive players who have such greater range these days. Doesn't help matters the refs seem more incompetent now than ever.

[elartman1973]

Scoring sells, usually across all team sports. I don't think defense is weaker per se they just can no longer do what they used to to impede offensive players. Doesn't help matters the refs seem more incompetent now than ever.

In essence, defense is weaker now

[thedangerouskitchen]

"Adam Silver is just a bitter Boomer trying to protect his era... today's Defense is better and tougher than ever."

Signed,
The BWGC and all the LeTots

Whoooopsie!



PS: TDK is ALWAYS right.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Here's more on the topic:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/396 ... e-too-good

"The rules really favor offense, in general, right now." - Rudy Gobert

MORE sour grapes from these Glory Days posters trying desperately to protect their era.



BTW... why is this thread so quiet???

[Shill Jackson]

Here's more on the topic:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/396 ... e-too-good

"The rules really favor offense, in general, right now." - Rudy Gobert

MORE sour grapes from these Glory Days posters trying desperately to protect their era.



BTW... why is this thread so quiet???

[thedangerouskitchen]

.

BUMP

Just in case certain posters (who owe TDK and some others an apology, BTW) have somehow managed to overlook this thread.

[elartman1973]

More on the topic

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/396 ... e-too-good

[Titan18]

Another L for LeBitch slurpers

[elartman1973]

Proposed new 3 point line?

https://basketballforever.com/2024/02/2 ... -ySGcVZISA

[thedangerouskitchen]

More on the topic

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/396 ... e-too-good

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=132291&p=1869772#p1869772

[Bush4Ever.]

It's funny that the second link posted literally confirms everything I've said on the topic: that while yes, there have been some rule changes that aid offenses, the overwhelming percentage of the action is based on players today simply being a lot more skilled, and offenses being significantly more intelligent in how they approach scoring.

The idea that a) players are legit more skilled is contradictory to b) the rules don't aid defenses as much as some other eras, is nonsensical.

Two things can be true at once (and I've literally agreed on point B by the way):

1. The rules aid defenses less than before, AND
2. Players today are also more skilled/better

A modern offense against a 1990 defense would score at least 180 points a game, while a 1990 offense against a modern defense would score the usual 100ish.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Drivel

"The rules really favor offense, in general, right now." - Rudy Gobert

[Bush4Ever.]

"The rules really favor offense, in general, right now." - Rudy Gobert

I never denied that, dummy.

But it can ALSO be the case the players are ALSO more skilled, despite playing in a more friendly environment.

That's exactly what the second link illustrates.

Incidentally, if you want to go down the road of "harder rules = better talent", you MUST conclude that the 80s/90s/00s were weak by comparison to the 60s (dribbling enforcement for example), and that Jerry West, Big O, Bob Cousy, etc...were better guards than MJ.

Because MJ played in a paradise rulset for guards by comparison to those guys.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

"The rules really favor offense, in general, right now." - Rudy Gobert

I never denied that, dummy.

But it can ALSO be the case the players are ALSO more skilled, despite playing in a more friendly environment.

That's exactly what the second link illustrates.

Incidentally, if you want to go down the road of "harder rules = better talent", you MUST conclude that the 80s/90s/00s were weak by comparison to the 60s (dribbling enforcement for example), and that Jerry West, Big O, Bob Cousy, etc...were better guards than MJ.

Because MJ played in a paradise rulset for guards by comparison to those guys.

Funny how a guy who only has a job in the NBA because of defense might suggest that rules favor the offense. Weird.

[Bush4Ever.]

Funny how a guy who only has a job in the NBA because of defense might suggest that rules favor the offense. Weird.

He probably carries a bias, but he's not wrong (basically).

It's just not a straight line from that idea to players performing better *solely because of* said rules.

You can receive a benefit for X, but also be more skilled at X independent of that factor.

Does anyone deny ball-handling rules got significantly more lax from 1960 to 1990?

Anyone deny that Jordan would still dominate the 1960s *even if* he was forced to dribble under the old ruleset?

Of course not.

The true shooting percentage in 2024 is *five* percentage points higher than in 1991, and six points higher than in 1998.

That doesn't happen from rule tweaks. The difference in true shooting percentage from 2005 to 2006+2007 was about a single percentage point.

It's not "rules". It's "rules + [other stuff]".

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Funny how a guy who only has a job in the NBA because of defense might suggest that rules favor the offense. Weird.

He probably carries a bias, but he's not wrong (basically).

It's just not a straight line from that idea to players performing better *solely because of* said rules.

You can receive a benefit for X, but also be more skilled at X independent of that factor.

Does anyone deny ball-handling rules got significantly more lax from 1960 to 1990?

Anyone deny that Jordan would still dominate the 1960s *even if* he was forced to dribble under the old ruleset?

Of course not.

The true shooting percentage in 2024 is *five* percentage points higher than in 1991, and six points higher than in 1998.

That doesn't happen from rule tweaks. The difference in true shooting percentage from 2005 to 2006+2007 was about a single percentage point.

It's not "rules". It's "rules + [other stuff]".

Personally, I think the "rules" stuff is overblown. Back in 2005-2006, when they strictly enforced handcheck rules and things got silly (especially memorable of course is the finals where Wade was getting phantom calls) where wings were getting all time high numbers of FTAs, there was definite bias towards offense relative to just the prior few seasons by a considerable margin. Muggings were going on with bigs trying to establish position in the post that went uncalled, while wings were getting a free ride to the hoop. But those days are long gone. There is a ton of contact going to the bucket that isn't called anymore and defenses have adapted considerably and rotate much better to guard the bucket than they did when they first enforced those rules. Allowing zone defenses, even if not used a ton, has been a boon to defenses as has the elimination of the silly illegal defense rules.

I agree with you that the biggest factor is just overall improvement in player skills. Almost everybody can put it on the deck effectively now, including PFs and Cs and those guys were exceptions more than rules in the 90s and earlier eras. WIngs in general have better handles and can put it on the deck better on average and there has been huge improvement in the total number of guys per team who can legitimately be threats from deep that have to be respected.

To me, by far the biggest different between offenses and defenses now versus the 90s and earlier eras, is how much court you have to defend. The proliferation of the 3 where at some points today all 5 players are legitimate threats versus sometimes in the 90s where only 1 or 2 or maybe even zero legitimate threats were present meant you had to guard much less of the court and the ability to rotate defensively was far less important. Guarding out to 25 feet from the bucket is infinitely harder than trying to guard from 16-18 feet in with only a guys who can hit 3s, and almost exclusively as spot up shooters. The number of guys who could hit the 3 at a reasonable rate off the dribble in the 80s and 90s was pathetic compared to today's NBA. Some smaller things, like the general improvement in the passing ability of bigs overall also make defending more difficult.

I know you were exaggerating with the 180 points comment, but clearly they could score more against 90s defenses than they can against current defenses. We can quibble as to how much more than today, but it is more. However, I disagree with you that 90s offenses would score as much today as they did back then. I think that number would be lower. I'm not sure how much lower, but definitely a meaningful amount.

[Bush4Ever.]

That's fair, and could very well be true (old offenses vs. modern defenses).

I think sometimes it's hard to wrap one's head around the significance of differences,

A difference of five or six percentage points for an entire NBA season including all teams is absolutely crushingly huge in statistical effect size terms.

But to anchor it to eras and leagues, the difference between 2024 and 1991 (58.2-53.4, 4.8 units) is barely less than the difference between 1991 and 1965 (53.4-47.9, 5.5 units), and that's without a three-pointer in play for 1965. The gap between 1991 and 1980 is essentially zero (0.3 percentage points).

[thedangerouskitchen]

"The rules really favor offense, in general, right now." - Rudy Gobert

I never denied that, dummy.

But it can ALSO be the case the players are ALSO more skilled, despite playing in a more friendly environment.

That's exactly what the second link illustrates.

Incidentally, if you want to go down the road of "harder rules = better talent", you MUST conclude that the 80s/90s/00s were weak by comparison to the 60s (dribbling enforcement for example), and that Jerry West, Big O, Bob Cousy, etc...were better guards than MJ.

Because MJ played in a paradise rulset for guards by comparison to those guys.

Funny how a guy who only has a job in the NBA because of defense might suggest that rules favor the offense. Weird.

Funny how the NBA Commissioner himself confirms that YOUR take of today's Defense is a load of crappola YET you're still too blind or stubborn or stupid (or any combination of the 3) to see it.

[thedangerouskitchen]

The BWGC got gutted like a fish not only by the head honcho of the NBA himself, but also the VP of Ops (Joe Dumars) and some of the players... yet they're still fighting as if they know better... a bunch of middle-aged and older wllie-lump-lump couch potatoes with all their graphs, charts and fake stats are right, but the Commish, VP and actual players are wrong.

Gee, that's a tough one... I don't know who to believe.