Why I don’t have Curry too high in my list

[AtiliusRegulus]

Great shooter, and innovator of the game. And a very hard worker. He has more talent in his little finger than I have in my whole body.
I don’t rank him with the likes of Jordan, Kobe, Magic and Bird.
1. He can only win championships by surprises
A) In 2015 going into the season it was expected that the spurs and the cavaliers would be there. The warriors went under the radar and surprised everyone.

2. Being the overall favorite in 2016, he blew a 3-1 lead and lost the 7th game at home.

3. Won in 2022, but with a chance to repeat in 2023, dude got beaten in the 2nd round by a mediocre lakers team who barely made the playoffs due to the play in. And Curry had home court advantage in this series. Smdh. Lakers were justly swept in the conference finals.

4. 2024, 2 years removed from his championship, his team is not in serious playoff contention, neither are the lakers.

[Robceltsfan]

Last year Klay averaged 16.2 points on 16.6 FGA's in that Lakers series. Klay shot 34.3% for the series....Jordan Poole shot 34.5% for the series.

Asking Curry to win with the shit he's playing with now is not possible.

[Bush4Ever.]

Weird criteria.

Even so, what do you even mean he can only win championships by surprises? He won two of the most expected titles in NBA history in 2017-2018.

Not being able to drag a fairly mediocre (by title team standards) cast to *another* ring in 2023 certainly isn't a reason to knock him back any. 2022 was probably his most remarkable title.

The absolute worst you can slot Curry on an all-time PG list is 2nd. Wherever you have Magic on an all-time list, Curry should be pretty damn close to him.

If you say he's not Jordan, sure. He's not.

Magic/Bird/Kobe? He can absolutely eat at that table. Easily.

[lettherebehouse]

I like the part where you compared yourself to his pinky

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Attie should just never, ever, ever talk sports.

[manchild98]

Isn't the only real knock against him a lack of Finals MVP's? 1 for 4.

[Bush4Ever.]

Steph should have won going-away in 2015, and wasn't wildly off an MVP-standard from 2017-2019...he simply played next to someone who was MVP++ in the same time span.

Data point:

Steph had average game scores of 24.1, 20.1, and 22.8 in the 2017-2019 Finals

Michael Jordan had average game scores (Finals) of 18.5, 23.4, and 21.4 in the 1996-1998 Finals.

Jordan certainly had a larger burden, but you can still draw a distinction between "playing to an MVP standard in the Finals" (which Curry has done probably four times out of six), and winning the actual MVP award.

[PhutureDynasty]

Weird criteria.

Even so, what do you even mean he can only win championships by surprises? He won two of the most expected titles in NBA history in 2017-2018.

Not being able to drag a fairly mediocre (by title team standards) cast to *another* ring in 2023 certainly isn't a reason to knock him back any. 2022 was probably his most remarkable title.

The absolute worst you can slot Curry on an all-time PG list is 2nd. Wherever you have Magic on an all-time list, Curry should be pretty damn close to him.

If you say he's not Jordan, sure. He's not.

Magic/Bird/Kobe? He can absolutely eat at that table. Easily.

I'm sure you've answered this or made a top 10 list recently but do you have Steph in the top 10?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Isn't the only real knock against him a lack of Finals MVP's? 1 for 4.

- Average facilitator (considering he's a PG)
- Below-average Defender
- 1 Finals MVP in 6 attempts
- Missed playoffs entirely 4 times in 13 seasons

[Bush4Ever.]

I'm sure you've answered this or made a top 10 list recently but do you have Steph in the top 10?

Someone asked me recently, and I said the below. I think a chunk/tier approach is probably more reasonable for off-the-cuff type lists. I chunk Curry with Magic/Bird at the moment. Curry does bump out Wilt though, and I really would rather have Curry to start a team than Wilt.

My list for TDK places Jordan approximately 9th to 11th, depending on certain criteria.

But when he's not here:

1. Lebron
2. Jordan
3. Russell

4. Kareem

5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. Hakeem

8. Magic
9. Bird
10. Curry

11. Wilt

12. KG
13. Kobe
14. Oscar
15. Durant

That's my approximate list at the moment, with each chunk being a tier of players that are essentially equivalent in my mind, depending on what people value in establishing career value (i.e.--one could put Jordan ahead of Lebron or Curry ahead of Bird/Magic with no complaints from me).

It might be worth tweaking, but that's approximately where I am circa 2024. If Joker and Giannis had come into the NBA hot out of the gate, they would probably be on this list. They just don't enough years of elite ball (yet)

[thedangerouskitchen]

Steph should have won going-away in 2015, and wasn't wildly off an MVP-standard from 2017-2019...he simply played next to someone who was MVP++ in the same time span.

Data point:

Steph had average game scores of 24.1, 20.1, and 22.8 in the 2017-2019 Finals

Michael Jordan had average game scores (Finals) of 18.5, 23.4, and 21.4 in the 1996-1998 Finals.

Jordan certainly had a larger burden, but you can still draw a distinction between "playing to an MVP standard in the Finals" (which Curry has done probably four times out of six), and winning the actual MVP award.

Yup... second 3-Peat MJ had a MUCH larger Offensive burden, not to mention (even past his prime) MJ was playing elite Defense, while (prime) Curry was an average (at the very best) Defender.

[AtiliusRegulus]

Last year Klay averaged 16.2 points on 16.6 FGA's in that Lakers series. Klay shot 34.3% for the series....Jordan Poole shot 34.5% for the series.

Asking Curry to win with the shit he's playing with now is not possible.

He won a championship with that team in 2022, or so you want to call that a fluke?

[Bush4Ever.]

rambling

And.....whoosh goes the point over TDK's head!

[thedangerouskitchen]

I'm sure you've answered this or made a top 10 list recently but do you have Steph in the top 10?

Someone asked me recently, and I said the below. I think a chunk/tier approach is probably more reasonable for off-the-cuff type lists. I chunk Curry with Magic/Bird at the moment. Curry does bump out Wilt though, and I really would rather have Curry to start a team than Wilt.

My list for TDK places Jordan approximately 9th to 11th, depending on certain criteria.

But when he's not here:

1. Lebron
2. Jordan

[Bush4Ever.]

I'm a child of Gatorade, Wheaties, and corporate propaganda

My previous list that was based more on EARNED merit had him slotted at 10th.

That said, the incredible luck and circumstances of his career (which changed him from a guy who couldn't win a playoff series to a guy winning rings) bumped his up to 2nd on my official list.

[AtiliusRegulus]

Magic/Bird/Kobe? He can absolutely eat at that table. Easily.

Definitely not and you know it. An undisputed mvp losing a finals after being up by 3-1? Nah

[thedangerouskitchen]

rambling

And.....whoosh goes the point over TDK's head!

It didn't go over my head... I had to add what I added because you foolishly forgot to factor in Defense AND you (even more foolishly) used the GOAT Jordan as a comparison instead of lowering the bar to someone more on Steph's level, like LeBron.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I'm a child of Gatorade, Wheaties, and corporate propaganda

My previous list that was based more on EARNED merit had him slotted at 10th.

That said, the incredible luck and circumstances of his career (which changed him from a guy who couldn't win a playoff series to a guy winning rings) bumped his up to 2nd on my official list.

Anytime you feel man enough, go ahead and list the reasons why you have LeFraud over MJ so I can obliterate your argument into a million teenie-weenie pieces.

[Bush4Ever.]

drunk

No, you definitely didn't get the point.

The point is that Steph has performed at an MVP-level in multiple Finals where he wasn't given the award.

It's a pretty obvious point. Sometimes non-MVPs in one series can be as good or even better than MVPs in other series.

Steph averages 27/6/6 on TS of 60 percent across six NBA Finals.

The only guys to average 25/5/5 in the Finals are Jordan, West, Kobe, and Curry.

About the worst thing you can say about Steph is that he played horribly in the 2016 Finals, and he had some poorly-timed cold streaks in the 2018 (didn't matter) and 2019 (mattered, but probably not to the bottom line) Finals. That's about it.

Saying "durrrr one mvp in six tries" is grossly misleading when analyzing performance.

[Bush4Ever.]

Anytime you feel man enough, go ahead and list the reasons why you have LeFraud over MJ so I can obliterate your argument into a million teenie-weenie pieces.

I've done this a hundred times. If you want to have meaningful discussions on this, stop trolling, stop being an idiot, learn a thing or two about the game and discuss the issue in good faith.

You don't have to be right or correct, you just have to do it in good faith.