Jokic stats tonight

[Uncontroversial]

[Bush4Ever.]

According to TDK, the centers of the 90s would have gone 11 for 10 against those same defenses.

[Uncontroversial]

That’s his 4th triple double on 100% shooting

[thedangerouskitchen]

How'd he do on Defense???

Oh wait... Defense isn't played anymore. Nevermind.

[zombiesonics]

How'd he do on Defense???

Oh wait... Defense isn't played anymore. Nevermind.

Nuggets had 11 blocks and 11 steals.

Not a single ‘90s team is athletic enough to do that.

[LeBronMonsterDunk]

How'd he do on Defense???

Oh wait... Defense isn't played anymore. Nevermind.

Jokics Defensive Rating last night - 93
Jordan's best Drtg season - 100

Joker was better defensively last night, against FAR superior offenses, than any season Jordone had, against dogshit offenses.

[zombiesonics]

How'd he do on Defense???

Oh wait... Defense isn't played anymore. Nevermind.

Jokics Defensive Rating last night - 93
Jordan's best Drtg season - 100

Joker was better defensively last night, against FAR superior offenses, than any season Jordone had, against dogshit offenses.

[thedangerouskitchen]

How'd he do on Defense???

Oh wait... Defense isn't played anymore. Nevermind.

Nuggets had 11 blocks and 11 steals.

Not a single ‘90s team is athletic enough to do that.

Against a bottom-feeder Offensive team... sorry, not impressed.

BTW, how many BLK/STL for Joker again?

Exaaaactly, which begs the thought: Imagine how much better the top Offensive Bigs of the 90's would have been if they didn't have to worry about playing Defense (like Joker)...

Hmmm...

[thedangerouskitchen]

How'd he do on Defense???

Oh wait... Defense isn't played anymore. Nevermind.

Jokics Defensive Rating last night - 93
Jordan's best Drtg season - 100

Joker was better defensively last night, against FAR superior offenses, than any season Jordone had, against dogshit offenses.

Using DR to pretend Joker is even in the same universe as Jordan as a defender just PROVES how completely worthless the stat is.

[Bush4Ever.]

To be fair to TDK, if Shaq and Ewing didn't have to work about blocking shots and guarding the interior against running hook shots (instead of PNRs and going line to line in rotations, etc...), they would have developed more of a three-point shot and dynamic, offense-bending passing abilities.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

How'd he do on Defense???

Oh wait... Defense isn't played anymore. Nevermind.

Nuggets had 11 blocks and 11 steals.

Not a single ‘90s team is athletic enough to do that.

Against a bottom-feeder Offensive team... sorry, not impressed.

BTW, how many BLK/STL for Joker again?

Exaaaactly, which begs the thought: Imagine how much better the top Offensive Bigs of the 90's would have been if they didn't have to worry about playing Defense (like Joker)...

Hmmm...

Dennis Rodman never averaged either a single block or a single steal in his entire career. Bruce Bowen averaged .8 steals and .4 blocks for his career. They did however, have outstanding defensive ratings relative to era. I would WAY rather use Defensive Rating as a primary gauge of defensive ability over blocks and steals.

[zombiesonics]

How'd he do on Defense???

Oh wait... Defense isn't played anymore. Nevermind.

Nuggets had 11 blocks and 11 steals.

Not a single ‘90s team is athletic enough to do that.

Against a bottom-feeder Offensive team... sorry, not impressed.

BTW, how many BLK/STL for Joker again?

Exaaaactly, which begs the thought: Imagine how much better the top Offensive Bigs of the 90's would have been if they didn't have to worry about playing Defense (like Joker)...

Hmmm...

Jokic had a better defensive rating last night than any ‘90s center has ever had. Meanwhile, he’s surrounded by his athletes who get blocks and steals to generate transition offense.

The Nuggets are a better offensive and defensive team than any ‘90s team. Shit, so are the Wizards.

[Uncontroversial]

Jokic cruised to a championship last year. Would be impossible if he was a defensive liability. His game is flawless, even though he appears to move like he’s playing wearing sandals

[thedangerouskitchen]

You KNOW you've got the BWGC on the ropes when they're trying to convince you that Nikola Jokic plays anything but average (at best) Defense... what's next, LeBron is an elite Shooter???

[elmerjfudd]

You KNOW you've got the BWGC on the ropes when they're trying to convince you that Nikola Jokic plays anything but average (at best) Defense... what's next, LeBron is an elite Shooter???

How would you know? They watch the games, while you’ve claimed that you don’t.

[Bush4Ever.]

It's not correct (IMO) to claim Joker is a good defensive player, but it's also wrong to draw any type of linkage between Dream/D-Rob/Ewing/Shaq being meaningfully behind Joker offensively as a function of energy expenditures from defense...centers move *way* more on average per-possession now, and the main attributes of Joker over those guys (shooting touch and passing) are elements that they were never going to match him on anyways.

Most of the best defensive metrics I trust generally grade Joker in the range of a step below average to average. My eye test marked him close to neutral, but that's with all the caveats about the eye test without super-focused and intentional scouting.

But like I said, the big four centers above could be in an empty gym and not have Joker's shooting ability, or passing ability in an open gym run. Joker is the best passing center in history, and pretty close to the best shooting touch as well. Not a needle-mover defensively, but his offense is top-of-the-class, period.

[thedangerouskitchen]

It's not correct (IMO) to claim Joker is a good defensive player, but it's also wrong to draw any type of linkage between Dream/D-Rob/Ewing/Shaq being meaningfully behind Joker offensively as a function of energy expenditures from defense...centers move *way* more on average per-possession now, and the main attributes of Joker over those guys (shooting touch and passing) are elements that they were never going to match him on anyways.

Most of the best defensive metrics I trust generally grade Joker in the range of a step below average to average. My eye test marked him close to neutral, but that's with all the caveats about the eye test without super-focused and intentional scouting.

But like I said, the big four centers above could be in an empty gym and not have Joker's shooting ability, or passing ability in an open gym run. Joker is the best passing center in history, and pretty close to the best shooting touch as well. Not a needle-mover defensively, but his offense is top-of-the-class, period.

You can't prove that Jokic "moves" way more per possession on Offense than the HOF Bigs of the 80's / 90's, nor can you measure how much energy it takes out of a player when he plays hard-nosed Defense for an entire season/career, vs. guys who coast or slack on that end of the floor... nor can you calculate how much energy it takes when you're banging, pushing, shoving in the paint your entire career (ie; Bigs in the 80's/90's) vs. playing on the perimeter with virtually no physical contact (Jokic, and the Bigs today).

Thus, I stand on my contention that it's MUCH easier to produce Offensively when you're playing in a soft Contact era and coasting on Defense vs. playing solid, consistent Defense in a physical era your entire career... and I would bet that the vast majority of people who played the sport will concur with my assessment.