Grizzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Da Stars.]

In another thread I believe you said or thought B.O. was still the GOAT in hockey. Does Bill Russell adapt and learn to shoot outside of ten feet. Defend to 20 plus feet. Do you see him as the GOAT in today's game.

[PhutureDynasty]

In another thread I believe you said or thought B.O. was still the GOAT in hockey. Does Bill Russell adapt and learn to shoot outside of ten feet. Defend to 20 plus feet. Do you see him as the GOAT in today's game.

Bill Russell isn't as impactful a defender today as he was back then simply because the talent and size has much improved. Through no fault of his own though.

Having said that, if he joined the NBA today and had the same work ethic he's still the best defender in the NBA by a wide margin.

Defensively, think KG mixed with Giannis mixed with Draymond. Able to realistically defend bigger guards all the way through centers. His combination of lateral quickness, speed, and athleticism are still elite in today's game.

Flirts with leading the NBA in blocks every year even at his seemingly now small size as a center. His team is consistently a top defensive team because bigs influence defense more than any position.

His rebounding would be arguably the most fun to watch. For essentially the same reasons he's a great defender, he's also a great rebounder. That speed, athleticism, and hustle. He's one of the smartest players to ever play the game. Also one of the most competitive.

In terms of his offense, I think we're looking at a dude who gets dirty buckets around the basket, is probably a decent lob threat, and is an above average passer at worst. With today's intelligent offensive schemes he probably maxes out at around 21-22 PPG, 13-15 RPG, 6-8 APG, and 2-3 BPG.

Prime Bill Russell is in the mix with Jokic, Giannis, and Embiid as the best current player.

[vcsgrizzfan]

In another thread I believe you said or thought B.O. was still the GOAT in hockey. Does Bill Russell adapt and learn to shoot outside of ten feet. Defend to 20 plus feet. Do you see him as the GOAT in today's game.

Bill Russell isn't as impactful a defender today as he was back then simply because the talent and size has much improved. Through no fault of his own though.

Having said that, if he joined the NBA today and had the same work ethic he's still the best defender in the NBA by a wide margin.

Defensively, think KG mixed with Giannis mixed with Draymond. Able to realistically defend bigger guards all the way through centers. His combination of lateral quickness, speed, and athleticism are still elite in today's game.

Flirts with leading the NBA in blocks every year even at his seemingly now small size as a center. His team is consistently a top defensive team because bigs influence defense more than any position.

His rebounding would be arguably the most fun to watch. For essentially the same reasons he's a great defender, he's also a great rebounder. That speed, athleticism, and hustle. He's one of the smartest players to ever play the game. Also one of the most competitive.

In terms of his offense, I think we're looking at a dude who gets dirty buckets around the basket, is probably a decent lob threat, and is an above average passer at worst. With today's intelligent offensive schemes he probably maxes out at around 21-22 PPG, 13-15 RPG, 6-8 APG, and 2-3 BPG.

Prime Bill Russell is in the mix with Jokic, Giannis, and Embiid as the best current player.

Well done Phuture....

The thing that is hard to know is how good Russell could have been offensively. It was a different world than it is today. Russell was a world class high jumper and also ran the 440 and competed in other college track and field events, so his attention wasn't solely on hoops. There wasn't AAU, there wasn't streaming of top prospects to just being about hoops and working with top skill coaches at very young ages to develop every part of their game.

To me, it's a bit like trying to determine how good a 3 point shooter MJ could have become if he were born 20 years later. You can't. You can only guess.

A minor aside, while Russell was listed at 6'9", that was a holdover from his listed height and weight as a freshman at USF. It was also in stocking feet, when most players today have their height listed in shoes. Russell would have been listed at 6'11" or 7'0" in today's NBA.

[PhutureDynasty]

In another thread I believe you said or thought B.O. was still the GOAT in hockey. Does Bill Russell adapt and learn to shoot outside of ten feet. Defend to 20 plus feet. Do you see him as the GOAT in today's game.

Bill Russell isn't as impactful a defender today as he was back then simply because the talent and size has much improved. Through no fault of his own though.

Having said that, if he joined the NBA today and had the same work ethic he's still the best defender in the NBA by a wide margin.

Defensively, think KG mixed with Giannis mixed with Draymond. Able to realistically defend bigger guards all the way through centers. His combination of lateral quickness, speed, and athleticism are still elite in today's game.

Flirts with leading the NBA in blocks every year even at his seemingly now small size as a center. His team is consistently a top defensive team because bigs influence defense more than any position.

His rebounding would be arguably the most fun to watch. For essentially the same reasons he's a great defender, he's also a great rebounder. That speed, athleticism, and hustle. He's one of the smartest players to ever play the game. Also one of the most competitive.

In terms of his offense, I think we're looking at a dude who gets dirty buckets around the basket, is probably a decent lob threat, and is an above average passer at worst. With today's intelligent offensive schemes he probably maxes out at around 21-22 PPG, 13-15 RPG, 6-8 APG, and 2-3 BPG.

Prime Bill Russell is in the mix with Jokic, Giannis, and Embiid as the best current player.

Well done Phuture....

The thing that is hard to know is how good Russell could have been offensively. It was a different world than it is today. Russell was a world class high jumper and also ran the 440 and competed in other college track and field events, so his attention wasn't solely on hoops. There wasn't AAU, there wasn't streaming of top prospects to just being about hoops and working with top skill coaches at very young ages to develop every part of their game.

To me, it's a bit like trying to determine how good a 3 point shooter MJ could have become if he were born 20 years later. You can't. You can only guess.

A minor aside, while Russell was listed at 6'9", that was a holdover from his listed height and weight as a freshman at USF. It was also in stocking feet, when most players today have their height listed in shoes. Russell would have been listed at 6'11" or 7'0" in today's NBA.

Thanks. I put a decent amount of thought into that one.

I think that you could argue that AAU, while good for some development, is also bad for basketball because it's streamlining these players who chuck 3s and look for highlight reel plays.

Bill definitely has more of an offensive game though in today's NBA. He'd be forced otherwise defenses would slack off of him and he'd realize he was becoming a liability on that side.

His intelligence is what would help build his offense. When he joined the Celtics he literally studied what they needed and were missing and did everything he could to plug those holes, which was mostly a defensive presence around the rim and someone who could feed the talented offensive players that Boston had. He'd grab a board and throw it forward in one motion for fastbreak opportunities.

So any NBA team that got him now he'd study to try and help fix in similar ways. But if shooting was what that team needed he'd definitely do that more.

Not to the same extent but Ben Simmons had that influence on Joel because Ben sucks as a shooter and Embiid realized he can't be clogging the paint when Ben needs to get there so he developed a mid range and three points jumper.

Smart players don't expect teams to adapt to them, they adapt to the team.

[PhutureDynasty]

I also agree about Bill's height. I was thinking 6'11" but they could easily fudge the numbers.

[vcsgrizzfan]

This ten second clip gives you a bit of a glimpse at Russell's athleticism. Grabs the board, runs the court at ridiculous speed for a big man and finishes with a flourish.

[vcsgrizzfan]

This one is much longer, but I enjoyed it. There's a ton of great footage of Russell, which is usually really hard to find.

I also learned something I didn't know. Russell, on top of leading his teams to 11 NBA titles and 2 NCAA titles (including a 55 game winning streak) also led his junior and senior high school teams to state championships. The guy just didn't lose. Period.

[PhutureDynasty]

This ten second clip gives you a bit of a glimpse at Russell's athleticism. Grabs the board, runs the court at ridiculous speed for a big man and finishes with a flourish.

Amazing.

I'd love to see him today in a sort of Jokic or Giannis point forward/center-type role.

[Da Stars.]

In another thread I believe you said or thought B.O. was still the GOAT in hockey. Does Bill Russell adapt and learn to shoot outside of ten feet. Defend to 20 plus feet. Do you see him as the GOAT in today's game.

Bill Russell isn't as impactful a defender today as he was back then simply because the talent and size has much improved. Through no fault of his own though.

Having said that, if he joined the NBA today and had the same work ethic he's still the best defender in the NBA by a wide margin.

Defensively, think KG mixed with Giannis mixed with Draymond. Able to realistically defend bigger guards all the way through centers. His combination of lateral quickness, speed, and athleticism are still elite in today's game.

Flirts with leading the NBA in blocks every year even at his seemingly now small size as a center. His team is consistently a top defensive team because bigs influence defense more than any position.

His rebounding would be arguably the most fun to watch. For essentially the same reasons he's a great defender, he's also a great rebounder. That speed, athleticism, and hustle. He's one of the smartest players to ever play the game. Also one of the most competitive.

In terms of his offense, I think we're looking at a dude who gets dirty buckets around the basket, is probably a decent lob threat, and is an above average passer at worst. With today's intelligent offensive schemes he probably maxes out at around 21-22 PPG, 13-15 RPG, 6-8 APG, and 2-3 BPG.

Prime Bill Russell is in the mix with Jokic, Giannis, and Embiid as the best current player.

Well done Phuture....

The thing that is hard to know is how good Russell could have been offensively. It was a different world than it is today. Russell was a world class high jumper and also ran the 440 and competed in other college track and field events, so his attention wasn't solely on hoops. There wasn't AAU, there wasn't streaming of top prospects to just being about hoops and working with top skill coaches at very young ages to develop every part of their game.

To me, it's a bit like trying to determine how good a 3 point shooter MJ could have become if he were born 20 years later. You can't. You can only guess.

A minor aside, while Russell was listed at 6'9", that was a holdover from his listed height and weight as a freshman at USF. It was also in stocking feet, when most players today have their height listed in shoes. Russell would have been listed at 6'11" or 7'0" in today's NBA.

Russell would adjust to the period of play. But MJ might not improve his 3 point shooting if born 20 years later.