"Kobe Bryant's the best player I've ever seen other than Michael Jordan."

[kobeunderbite]

[kennethgriffin24]

kobe is the best player i've seen and i've seen michael jordan. he does everything jordan does with unlimited range and every move/shot can be made with both hands. more counters. can run the point when needed.

obviously jordan had the better career but in terms of actual skill i'd rank kobe ahead of him

everyone else that ever played the game has at least one flaw. kobes is "takes incredibly difficult shots and wins doing them while being just as efficient as tim duncan/larry bird/michael jordan"... well... thats a compliment

(ts%/point per shot>fg%)

[Robceltsfan]

kobe is the best player i've seen and i've seen michael jordan. he does everything jordan does with unlimited range and every move/shot can be made with both hands. more counters. can run the point when needed.

obviously jordan had the better career but in terms of actual skill i'd rank kobe ahead of him

everyone else that ever played the game has at least one flaw. kobes is "takes incredibly difficult shots and wins doing them while being just as efficient as tim duncan/larry bird/michael jordan"... well... thats a compliment

(ts%/point per shot>fg%)

eFG% > both

But nice try, Kobe Kid.

[kennethgriffin24]

kobe is the best player i've seen and i've seen michael jordan. he does everything jordan does with unlimited range and every move/shot can be made with both hands. more counters. can run the point when needed.

obviously jordan had the better career but in terms of actual skill i'd rank kobe ahead of him

everyone else that ever played the game has at least one flaw. kobes is "takes incredibly difficult shots and wins doing them while being just as efficient as tim duncan/larry bird/michael jordan"... well... thats a compliment

(ts%/point per shot>fg%)

eFG% > both

But nice try, Kobe Kid.

wrong. that doesn't even factor in a players ability to get to the line

that IS a skill believe it or not

[Bush4Ever.]

Charles Barkley took Allen Iverson first in an all-time draft event.

[Robceltsfan]

Charles Barkley took Allen Iverson first in an all-time draft event.

[kennethgriffin24]

Charles Barkley took Allen Iverson first in an all-time draft event.

he though he was picking players for a "virtual allstar game" and said iverson would have the ball in his hand and could gun for 40 or some shit


he also had a bias cause of the philly connection probly.


every other time he's listed a top 10 or a top 5 he's never mentioned iverson and jordans always ranked #1


so... don't think you can just destroy his credibility as a truth teller with that one instance. he's always been right about the raptors being serious threats/kawhi being the best player in the world and giannis coming to take lebrons crown. he also saw denvers rise before anyone else. and he saw the lakers imminent failure during the 2019 season long before anyone as well

he's been mostly right on his predictions... he's right about mchale being a more unguardable scorer than duncan. hes right about shaq needing kobe/wade to win a ring. he was also right about michael jordan having too many yes men working for him that ruined their friendship

barkley is one of the more knowledgable people in basketball and he always punks shaq live on tv. his only problem is he repeats himself too much

[Kingcarl24]

It was pretty nice of KUB to create this thread for Griff.

[Robceltsfan]

kobe is the best player i've seen and i've seen michael jordan. he does everything jordan does with unlimited range and every move/shot can be made with both hands. more counters. can run the point when needed.

obviously jordan had the better career but in terms of actual skill i'd rank kobe ahead of him

everyone else that ever played the game has at least one flaw. kobes is "takes incredibly difficult shots and wins doing them while being just as efficient as tim duncan/larry bird/michael jordan"... well... thats a compliment

(ts%/point per shot>fg%)

eFG% > both

But nice try, Kobe Kid.

wrong. that doesn't even factor in a players ability to get to the line

that IS a skill believe it or not

So you're standing behind TS%/PPS being the better tracker of efficiency?

[Bush4Ever.]

so... don't think you can just destroy his credibility as a truth teller with that one instance.

I'm pretty sure we could go back through Barkley's history and find many instances of him being terrible at analysis.

"The Warriors will never win a ring shooting threes"

Okay then.

[Havlicekstealsit]

Extremely edgy take by the Chuckster.

[kennethgriffin24]

eFG% > both

But nice try, Kobe Kid.

wrong. that doesn't even factor in a players ability to get to the line

that IS a skill believe it or not

So you're standing behind TS%/PPS being the better tracker of efficiency?

i stand behind the eye test first.. you have to judge players on eras/defensive pressure/shot difficulty/counters/skill sets and compare their efficiency to similar players

bird could take and make a lot of the kind of shots kobe made but he did it like 1/10th as much as kobe did... bird would have rare moments while kobe was basically doing this shit all day every day.

part of it was due to different styles/eras/coaching and also bird having a loaded team that didn't really depend on it ... i rank bird top 4 in terms of skills all time with kobe/durant/hakeem

but his major flaw that lowers him below kobe is his lack of ability to attack and draw fouls and guard the perimeter. he was an ok defender. not nearly as bad as barkley or magic. but he wasn't even 1/100th the on ball defender kobe was in his prime

[Robceltsfan]

wrong. that doesn't even factor in a players ability to get to the line

that IS a skill believe it or not

So you're standing behind TS%/PPS being the better tracker of efficiency?

i stand behind the eye test first.. you have to judge players on eras/defensive pressure/shot difficulty/counters/skill sets and compare their efficiency to similar players

bird could take and make a lot of the kind of shots kobe made but he did it like 1/10th as much as kobe did... bird would have rare moments while kobe was basically doing this shit all day every day.

part of it was due to different styles/eras/coaching and also bird having a loaded team that didn't really depend on it ... i rank bird top 4 in terms of offensive skills all time with kobe/durant/hakeem

but his major flaw that lowers him below kobe is his lack of ability to attack and draw fouls and guard the perimeter. he was an ok defender. not nearly as bad as barkley or magic. but he wasn't even 1/100th the on ball defender kobe was in his prime

Soooooo, that's a long-winded yes? Well, first of all, you wouldn't DIVIDE by the PPS....you'd multiply (lest you wish to give the advantage to guys with lesser PPS).

That being said, here's your stats for a few select players:

Kobe Bryant: 1.284 PPS x 55.0%TS = 70.62
Larry Bird: 1.257 PPS x 56.4%TS = 70.89
Tim Duncan: 1.302 PPS x 55.1%TS = 71.74
Michael Jordan: 1.316 PPS x 56.9%TS = 74.88
Lebron James: 1.383 PPS x 58.6%TS = 81.04
Steph Curry: 1.376 PPS x 62.3%TS = 85.72

[kennethgriffin24]

So you're standing behind TS%/PPS being the better tracker of efficiency?

i stand behind the eye test first.. you have to judge players on eras/defensive pressure/shot difficulty/counters/skill sets and compare their efficiency to similar players

bird could take and make a lot of the kind of shots kobe made but he did it like 1/10th as much as kobe did... bird would have rare moments while kobe was basically doing this shit all day every day.

part of it was due to different styles/eras/coaching and also bird having a loaded team that didn't really depend on it ... i rank bird top 4 in terms of offensive skills all time with kobe/durant/hakeem

but his major flaw that lowers him below kobe is his lack of ability to attack and draw fouls and guard the perimeter. he was an ok defender. not nearly as bad as barkley or magic. but he wasn't even 1/100th the on ball defender kobe was in his prime

Soooooo, that's a long-winded yes? Well, first of all, you wouldn't DIVIDE by the PPS....you'd multiply (lest you wish to give the advantage to guys with lesser PPS).

That being said, here's your stats for a few select players:

Kobe Bryant: 1.284 PPS x 55.0%TS = 70.62
Larry Bird: 1.257 PPS x 56.4%TS = 70.89
Tim Duncan: 1.302 PPS x 55.1%TS = 71.74
Michael Jordan: 1.316 PPS x 56.9%TS = 74.88
Lebron James: 1.383 PPS x 58.6%TS = 81.04
Steph Curry: 1.376 PPS x 62.3%TS = 85.72

lol@ including post achilles rupture kobe

kobes point per shot went from being on par with jordan to 3 points lower over his last 3 seasons. his career fg% went from nearly 46% to 44%

his true shooting percentage went from 55.5 to 55.0


1.301 pps x 55.5%ts = 72.20.. close to jordan. above bird and duncan

and lebron/duncan don't really belong in the convo anyway cause nearly 80% of their points come in the paint

in fact only curry really can be measured with kobe in terms of shot selection. and even then its not fair cause they don't play perimeter defense anymore. its illegal

[PhutureDynasty]

Charles Barkley took Allen Iverson first in an all-time draft event.

and... ???

[Bush4Ever.]

Kobe isn't in Curry's galaxy in terms of combining efficiency, volume, and "degree of difficulty".

[kennethgriffin24]

Kobe isn't in Curry's galaxy in terms of combining efficiency, volume, and "degree of difficulty".

yeah but you can't even body a guy up on the perimeter. curry can freelance and do fancy dribbles/slowly traverse around screens/picks and get open shots whenever he wants... that wasn't how it was during kobes prime

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

[Bush4Ever.]

yeah but you can't even body a guy up on the perimeter. curry can freelance and do fancy dribbles/slowly traverse around screens/picks and get open shots whenever he wants... that wasn't how it was during kobes prime

So you admit Kobe was able to get away with murder when he played defense, correct?

Since everyone in his era could punch/kick/maim the opposition with impunity, right?

Let me guess...Kobe was the only one of that era that didn't resort to dirty defense.

Am I right?

[kennethgriffin24]

yeah but you can't even body a guy up on the perimeter. curry can freelance and do fancy dribbles/slowly traverse around screens/picks and get open shots whenever he wants... that wasn't how it was during kobes prime

So you admit Kobe was able to get away with murder when he played defense, correct?

Since everyone in his era could punch/kick/maim the opposition with impunity, right?

Let me guess...Kobe was the only one of that era that didn't resort to dirty defense.

Am I right?

kobe played in an era with real defense. real offense. real teams. real titles. real numbers

he never punched/kicked/maimed anyone. he maybe elbowed a few guys while going for rebounds. but other than that he was just allowed to put his body on a guy and shift his feet and get in position so the player had to actually work for his shot

which is why the best scorers used to be supreme athletes like kobe, tmac, vince, wade etc... off balance shooting was a necessity. which is why kobes skillset was so valuable back in the day... today people are like "why did kobe take such difficult shots. why didn't he just wait to get wide open like todays players... well.. he was never afforded that opportunity


today guys have to sag off because of how strict the rules are. you need the ability to touch them on their way to the rim in order to stay ahead of them. without that ability to impede their progress the guy running forward will always beat the guy back peddling or side stepping. which is also why lebron may very well play till hes 45 and obliterate kareems all time points record.

then luka will obliterate that shit too

[kennethgriffin24]

if you couldn't touch kobe on the perimeter he would have shot wide open all day and hit 45% threes.. probly 7-10 of them a game. averaged 37ppg or so for his career. it would have been a joke. the guy averaged 28ppg as a starter till his achilles rupture taking insanely difficult long range highly contested shots lol

battier fouls out in 2 quarters playing defense like this in todays league