Top 10 perimeter defenders ever?

[LNS]

I also wasn’t trolling at all.

[vcsgrizzfan]

I've done virtually no trolling in this thread, and literally did none on the basketball stuff.

About the only trolling I did was when I pointed out LNS literally said Rocky would beat Ali "and it wouldn't even be close".

Which is a strange opinion, frankly.

Please fuck off. Thanks.

[Bartman]

I didn’t even know how many votes I won by... I literally didn’t/don’t care.

But you obviously care... a lot, actually. You even have built-in excuses for my W

The board rewarded me for shitting down your throat. Either they really love me or really think you’re a fucking spazz.

I’ll let you decide that one.

I wasn't even a regular poster when you won the award, how is my posting related to any part of your award.?

I watched you suck certified lakers dick for "thanks" on this board, it isn't a stretch to conclude you did it for a bigger prize. Seeing you're so triggered it's safe to say I got it spot on.

TBH, the way Bush is kicking your ass in this thread, it might be best to vacate this thread, it could jeopardize your chances at POY again, I would hate to think what gay sexual acts you would have to endure to repeat as POY to make up for your embarrassment in this thread.

[Bush4Ever.]

I also wasn’t trolling at all.

We did bad.

phpBB [video]

[LNS]

I didn’t even know how many votes I won by... I literally didn’t/don’t care.

But you obviously care... a lot, actually. You even have built-in excuses for my W

The board rewarded me for shitting down your throat. Either they really love me or really think you’re a fucking spazz.

I’ll let you decide that one.

I wasn't even a regular poster when you won the award, how is my posting related to any part of your award.?

I watched you suck certified lakers dick for "thanks" on this board, it isn't a stretch to conclude you did it for a bigger prize. Seeing you're so triggered it's safe to say I got it spot on.

TBH, the way Bush is kicking your ass in this thread, it might be best to vacate this thread, it could jeopardize your chances at POY again, I would hate to think what gay sexual acts you would have to endure to repeat as POY to make up for your embarrassment in this thread.

You watched me...?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Russell "passable" offense would be horrid in the modern game. If he had trouble scoring over physically inferior players how would he do when he had better, centers, fowards and guards surrounding him and defending him. He would be deandre jordan 2.0 at best.

Offense only matters when we're discussing any/every other player in the history of the NBA, silly. Russell was locking-down 38%-42% shooters who couldn't dribble with their off hand... that's all that matters to 'some' fans.

[Bartman]

Many thinks to FPL for some great stuff in this thread. That was really enjoyable.

Not so much for the triple sided trolling of Bush, LNS and Bartman.

You're such a kiss ass. Were you a bootlicker when you worked too.

[FPL]

One thing is certain, you’ve done your homework on Russell. I should probably watch more footage of the guy too but I have a hard time getting passed the competition he faced and not just at the center position. From the 80’s onward, he wouldn’t have the luxury of not facing these athletic guards and forwards like Wilkins, Dr J., Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Vince Carter, etc. and quick and versatile guards like Kevin Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Iverson, Lillard, Stockton, Tim Hardaway, etc. Having to protect the paint against these type of players would get Russell in foul trouble a lot more than he ever was in his career causing him to adjust his game resulting in much fewer blocks and rebounds.

Well who are the best bigs ever at covering guards? Hakeem, Garnett, Robinson, Big Ben (excluding Rodman and Draymond here because they’re different types of guys) I’d say. I would say Russ would do as good a job as that lot. Anyhow I don’t rank players wholly on box score volume anyway. They tell us a story but not much about context. I don’t think anybody expects Russ or anyone would average 25 rebounds or 8 blocks a night. Regarding foul trouble, I think bball IQ is just something that translates.

And with so many better options on offense, his touches would be extremely limited resulting in his point production taking a severe hit.

Same as above IMO. Some of the best series Magic, Bird, etc had were ones in which they didn’t score much. He would be fine moving the ball or grabbing offensive boards/putbacks and getting back in transition, whatever you need him to do.

In other words, the advantages he reaped from being miles better athletically than 75% of the players during his time would pretty much erased.

He’s still an Olympic level athlete in hurdles, a center who is on video looking down at the rim, and a guy quick in tight space. He’s probably a top 10 athlete all-time in league history, at worst top 25 of you include complete busts.

His analytics are skewed because of this as well so relying on them could be misleading. I know it is the same drum I keep on beating about Russell but that is road block for me each and every time I decide to rank the man. Of course you gave me much more to think about and with watching more film of the dude, maybe he will creep up on all-time list in the future. Right now I have him outside the top 10 which could change. Where do you rank Russell on your all time list?

I haven’t done a GOAT list since like 2014. I think Russell has a case for GOAT, but I don’t know where I’d take him. My new rule since then has been to not rank guys I haven’t watched live, or at least half a seasons worth of games of (so outside of Kareem I don’t rank anybody from pre-1980).

Honestly, I think my GOAT right now is Magic. Part of this is assuming he had 3 more seasons left and would have played them with today’s knowledge. Without the extra seasons it’s the other MJ.

[Bartman]

Russell "passable" offense would be horrid in the modern game. If he had trouble scoring over physically inferior players how would he do when he had better, centers, fowards and guards surrounding him and defending him. He would be deandre jordan 2.0 at best.

Offense only matters when we're discussing any/every other player in the history of the NBA, silly. Russell was locking-down 38%-42% shooters who couldn't dribble with their off hand... that's all that matters to 'some' fans.

LMAO...Don't forget blocking all of those thunderous lay up attempts...lol...imagine if Russell had to try and block MJ's dunks, he would constantly posterized.

[Bartman]

I didn’t even know how many votes I won by... I literally didn’t/don’t care.

But you obviously care... a lot, actually. You even have built-in excuses for my W

The board rewarded me for shitting down your throat. Either they really love me or really think you’re a fucking spazz.

I’ll let you decide that one.

I wasn't even a regular poster when you won the award, how is my posting related to any part of your award.?

I watched you suck certified lakers dick for "thanks" on this board, it isn't a stretch to conclude you did it for a bigger prize. Seeing you're so triggered it's safe to say I got it spot on.

TBH, the way Bush is kicking your ass in this thread, it might be best to vacate this thread, it could jeopardize your chances at POY again, I would hate to think what gay sexual acts you would have to endure to repeat as POY to make up for your embarrassment in this thread.

You watched me...?

Yeah, it was disgusting but you claimed you were the best and insisted I watch.

[LNS]

So you’d be lurking as a Guest and just.... watch me post?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Russell "passable" offense would be horrid in the modern game. If he had trouble scoring over physically inferior players how would he do when he had better, centers, fowards and guards surrounding him and defending him. He would be deandre jordan 2.0 at best.

Offense only matters when we're discussing any/every other player in the history of the NBA, silly. Russell was locking-down 38%-42% shooters who couldn't dribble with their off hand... that's all that matters to 'some' fans.

LMAO...Don't forget blocking all of those thunderous lay up attempts...lol...imagine if Russell had to try and block MJ's dunks, he would constantly posterized.

When I imagine Bill Russell playing in today's NBA I'm thinking prime Joakim Noah... 10-12 PPG / 10-12 REB / 4-5 AST and elite / DPOY caliber Defense.

Great HOF level player, but nowhere even remotely close to GOAT level.

[Bartman]

One thing is certain, you’ve done your homework on Russell. I should probably watch more footage of the guy too but I have a hard time getting passed the competition he faced and not just at the center position. From the 80’s onward, he wouldn’t have the luxury of not facing these athletic guards and forwards like Wilkins, Dr J., Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Vince Carter, etc. and quick and versatile guards like Kevin Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Iverson, Lillard, Stockton, Tim Hardaway, etc. Having to protect the paint against these type of players would get Russell in foul trouble a lot more than he ever was in his career causing him to adjust his game resulting in much fewer blocks and rebounds.

Well who are the best bigs ever at covering guards? Hakeem, Garnett, Robinson, Big Ben (excluding Rodman and Draymond here because they’re different types of guys) I’d say. I would say Russ would do as good a job as that lot. Anyhow I don’t rank players wholly on box score volume anyway. They tell us a story but not much about context. I don’t think anybody expects Russ or anyone would average 25 rebounds or 8 blocks a night. Regarding foul trouble, I think bball IQ is just something that translates.

And with so many better options on offense, his touches would be extremely limited resulting in his point production taking a severe hit.

Same as above IMO. Some of the best series Magic, Bird, etc had were ones in which they didn’t score much. He would be fine moving the ball or grabbing offensive boards/putbacks and getting back in transition, whatever you need him to do.

In other words, the advantages he reaped from being miles better athletically than 75% of the players during his time would pretty much erased.

He’s still an Olympic level athlete in hurdles, a center who is on video looking down at the rim, and a guy quick in tight space. He’s probably a top 10 athlete all-time in league history, at worst top 25 of you include complete busts.

His analytics are skewed because of this as well so relying on them could be misleading. I know it is the same drum I keep on beating about Russell but that is road block for me each and every time I decide to rank the man. Of course you gave me much more to think about and with watching more film of the dude, maybe he will creep up on all-time list in the future. Right now I have him outside the top 10 which could change. Where do you rank Russell on your all time list?

I haven’t done a GOAT list since like 2014. I think Russell has a case for GOAT, but I don’t know where I’d take him. My new rule since then has been to not rank guys I haven’t watched live, or at least half a seasons worth of games of (so outside of Kareem I don’t rank anybody from pre-1980).

Honestly, I think my GOAT right now is Magic. Part of this is assuming he had 3 more seasons left and would have played them with today’s knowledge. Without the extra seasons it’s the other MJ.

I agree with most of what you're saying. I think, where we differ is if Russell's game would transfer to the modern era where he would be a GOAT caliber player. IMO, the issue with Russ is not that he wouldn't be as great or even slightly better than modern centers defensively but not extraordinarily better where he is impacting his team to the point he is winning 11 championships For the same reasons Wilt wouldn't have a 50 point scoring season with 25 rebounds in the modern era, Russell wouldn't have the same impact in the modern era on the defense end he had in the 60's. I agree with your comparison with Hakeem, Robinson, Garnet, etc on the defensive end against perimeter players but those guys also had great offensive games. That isn't a MVP caliber player, IMO. I think what gets Russ placed in the GOAT discussions is his 11 championships. I don't see him winning more than 1 or 2 rings as the best player on a team in the 80's and beyond. With mediocre offense numbers and a couple of rings, he would never be in the GOAT conversations, IMO.

Another thing to consider is that Russ would be pushing his body harder due to having to guard a higher level of competition which would most likely cause him more injuries during the course of his career. Plus, the increase in playoff rounds would add extra wear and tear.

TBH, GOAT lists are very difficult because of the assumptions you have to make comparing players across generations. Magic is a good choice, if he could have won one without Jabbar then I would have him at number one without reservation. With that said Magic is still in the conversation along with Jabbar, Jordan, and Lebron. Lebron winning one with the Lakers would probably vault him to the top. 4 rings with 3 different teams would be something else.

[Bartman]

Offense only matters when we're discussing any/every other player in the history of the NBA, silly. Russell was locking-down 38%-42% shooters who couldn't dribble with their off hand... that's all that matters to 'some' fans.

LMAO...Don't forget blocking all of those thunderous lay up attempts...lol...imagine if Russell had to try and block MJ's dunks, he would constantly posterized.

When I imagine Bill Russell playing in today's NBA I'm thinking prime Joakim Noah... 10-12 PPG / 10-12 REB / 4-5 AST and elite / DPOY caliber Defense.

Great HOF level player, but nowhere even remotely close to GOAT level.

That's actually a reasonable comparison.

[Bartman]

So you’d be lurking as a Guest and just.... watch me post?

What are you babbling about?

[LNS]

You’re my stalker. You going toothpick on me, chump? I sent that little faggot PACKING!

Don’t test me.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Who else thinks it's time for meathead LNS to get some new material...?

[Bartman]

Who else thinks it's time for meathead LNS to get some new material...?

He's obsessed with Toothpick, it's probably the only person in his life that wanted to know anything about him.

[Bartman]

You’re my stalker. You going toothpick on me, chump? I sent that little faggot PACKING!

Don’t test me.

You wish. Nobody wants to around your ugly ass.

[LNS]

Are you sure toothpick wasn't using JC as Jesus Christ which just happen to be your initials?