Smelters wrote:Kareem played with Jamal Wilkes (top 50) also, McAdoo (top 50), Norm Nixon, Bobby Dandridge, Worthy (top 50), etc. etc. etc. that's a lot of fire power.
The equal thing for MJ would be to join the Spurs or Lakers instead of the Wizards.
you know there is an actual top 50 list and only one of those players was on that list.
That said I don't know why MJ fans like to name drop so much. Tell me who's going to stand out more a player on a team where passing and getting everyone touches was the main agenda or the team where one player took nearly 30% of the teams shots.
But of course that was needed which showed in the season MJ decided to take off where 3 of his supporting cast mates had career years and made the allstar game.
And were bounced in the second round despite adding Steve Kerr and the best player from Europe.
So Kerr and Kukoc had more influence on Grant, Pippen and Armstrong having career years than MJ, interesting.
And I would hope a team that loses their best player isn't good enough to beat a team that pushed them to 6 to 7 games with the great one.... I would think Jordan should have some value.
What Jordan fans continually dismiss is that he had a great team for his era... he might not of had name dropper here and there because it wasn't need. His team was as well rounded as it gets.
Smelters wrote:
Instead of the Wizards and get a loaded team like Kareem had with the Lakers? MJ could have easily done that but went to the Wizards instead of getting more rings with a loaded squad.
Jordan CHOSE to join the wizards.
He believed his own hype and did not make his teammates better.
Wrong.
MJ joined the Wizards because he was like the part owner and president of basketball operations.
Soooooooo, he didn't choose to join the Wizards?
OK, I'll bite. How DID he become a Wizard, since he didn't choose them?
"Educated people make the world a better place, they mercilessly attack misery and cruelty, and eventually they win."
--Henry Rollins
town bidness wrote:
what? he had orlando woolridge but jordan was too busy channeling pistol pete to actually do anything but have his brightest moment in the 80s come during a loss in the playoffs, lol.
orlando at least got a taste of the finals with the lakers... not a good taste but a taste nonetheless.
what does pippen not being a center or pg have to do with anything?
ROFMAO at "he had Orlando Woolridge"... yeah, the same Woolridge who led the Bulls to a 21-43 record in the games Jordan missed during the 86 season.
Hahahaha... lol at the Kobe Kids' desperation.
HOLD UP!!!! don't tell me Kobe kids or Bron tots are using Kareem to fight their battles. Now that is some serious trolling but it makes for good conversation, hahahaha
Yes they are... !!
ROFL
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
town bidness wrote:
what? he had orlando woolridge but jordan was too busy channeling pistol pete to actually do anything but have his brightest moment in the 80s come during a loss in the playoffs, lol.
orlando at least got a taste of the finals with the lakers... not a good taste but a taste nonetheless.
what does pippen not being a center or pg have to do with anything?
Orlando Woolridge, hahahahaha Really? you went there
what is more laughable?
one old but serviceable oscar robertson in his last year or orlando woolridge in his prime with over 20 ppg in the playoffs.
kobe didnt need that from gasol did he?
I'd take the old point guard over Woolridge. What did Woolridge do since? hahahaha this is becoming too funny
elmerjfudd wrote:
you know there is an actual top 50 list and only one of those players was on that list.
That said I don't know why MJ fans like to name drop so much. Tell me who's going to stand out more a player on a team where passing and getting everyone touches was the main agenda or the team where one player took nearly 30% of the teams shots.
But of course that was needed which showed in the season MJ decided to take off where 3 of his supporting cast mates had career years and made the allstar game.
And were bounced in the second round despite adding Steve Kerr and the best player from Europe.
So Kerr and Kukoc had more influence on Grant, Pippen and Armstrong having career years than MJ, interesting.
And I would hope a team that loses their best player isn't good enough to beat a team that pushed them to 6 to 7 games with the great one.... I would think Jordan should have some value.
What Jordan fans continually dismiss is that he had a great team for his era... he might not of had name dropper here and there because it wasn't need. His team was as well rounded as it gets.
Phil gave the ball to Kukoc once in the playoffs and Pippen refused to go in the game.
ROFMAO at "he had Orlando Woolridge"... yeah, the same Woolridge who led the Bulls to a 21-43 record in the games Jordan missed during the 86 season.
Hahahaha... lol at the Kobe Kids' desperation.
wait.. oscar was something to behold in his last year but orlando in 85 with over 20 ppg in the playoffs was inadequate?
hmm... that's seems inconsistent doesnt it? jordan fans always indirectly make pippen look so much better.
Pssst: Oscar last year was 74 (not 71, when the Bucks won the Championship). Also, the Bucks won 59 games in 74 and just 38 the next year (after he retired).
Go get me a sammich kiddo.
oh that's correct, he retired 3 seasons later. that changes absolutely nothing.
so although my memory failed me that means that oscar wasnt indeed old and orlando woolridge didnt score what he did in his prime and jordan couldnt get out of the first round.
good job pointing out the minutia but not doing anything about the actual point. kareem got a ring outside of the lakers and jordan couldnt make the playoffs.
1994 showed jordans true worth when pete myers filled in for baldy on short notice, lol. enjoy that fact.
Smelters wrote:Kareem played with Jamal Wilkes (top 50) also, McAdoo (top 50), Norm Nixon, Bobby Dandridge, Worthy (top 50), etc. etc. etc. that's a lot of fire power.
The equal thing for MJ would be to join the Spurs or Lakers instead of the Wizards.
you know there is an actual top 50 list and only one of those players was on that list.
That said I don't know why MJ fans like to name drop so much. Tell me who's going to stand out more a player on a team where passing and getting everyone touches was the main agenda or the team where one player took nearly 30% of the teams shots.
But of course that was needed which showed in the season MJ decided to take off where 3 of his supporting cast mates had career years and made the allstar game.
My bad I thought Wilkes and McAdoo made it. It's been a long time. But they probably are right outside the top 50 with players like Bernard King. Any one that knows basketball knows that MJ didn't have players like that to help him in his old age like Kareem.
HOFer Wilkes helped Rick Barry and GS win a title and he and HOFer McAdoo (NBA MVP and 3 times in a row scoring champ) were a big part of the Lakers success with Worthy, Magic, Scott, Cooper (one of the best defenders ever, multiple all NBA 1st team defender and a DPOY).
As were Rodman, Kukoc, Pippen, Kerr, Harper
or Cartwright, Pippen, Grant, Armstrong and Paxson
town bidness wrote:
wait.. oscar was something to behold in his last year but orlando in 85 with over 20 ppg in the playoffs was inadequate?
hmm... that's seems inconsistent doesnt it? jordan fans always indirectly make pippen look so much better.
Pssst: Oscar last year was 74 (not 71, when the Bucks won the Championship). Also, the Bucks won 59 games in 74 and just 38 the next year (after he retired).
Go get me a sammich kiddo.
oh that's correct, he retired 3 seasons later. that changes absolutely nothing.
so although my memory failed me that means that oscar wasnt indeed old and orlando woolridge didnt score what he did in his prime and jordan couldnt get out of the first round.
good job pointing out the minutia but not doing anything about the actual point. kareem got a ring outside of the lakers and jordan couldnt make the playoffs.
1994 showed jordans true worth when pete myers filled in for baldy on short notice, lol. enjoy that fact.
but they got bounced and who usually won the finals MVP when they won it all? and Kukoc was given the last shot over Pippen (who refused to go back in the game) yeah!!!
town bidness wrote:
wait.. oscar was something to behold in his last year but orlando in 85 with over 20 ppg in the playoffs was inadequate?
hmm... that's seems inconsistent doesnt it? jordan fans always indirectly make pippen look so much better.
Pssst: Oscar last year was 74 (not 71, when the Bucks won the Championship). Also, the Bucks won 59 games in 74 and just 38 the next year (after he retired).
Go get me a sammich kiddo.
oh that's correct, he retired 3 seasons later. that changes absolutely nothing.
so although my memory failed me that means that oscar wasnt indeed old and orlando woolridge didnt score what he did in his prime and jordan couldnt get out of the first round.
It changes everything because 71 Oscar was vastly superior to 85 Woolridge... and only a nincompoop would argue otherwise.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
elmerjfudd wrote:
you know there is an actual top 50 list and only one of those players was on that list.
That said I don't know why MJ fans like to name drop so much. Tell me who's going to stand out more a player on a team where passing and getting everyone touches was the main agenda or the team where one player took nearly 30% of the teams shots.
But of course that was needed which showed in the season MJ decided to take off where 3 of his supporting cast mates had career years and made the allstar game.
My bad I thought Wilkes and McAdoo made it. It's been a long time. But they probably are right outside the top 50 with players like Bernard King. Any one that knows basketball knows that MJ didn't have players like that to help him in his old age like Kareem.
HOFer Wilkes helped Rick Barry and GS win a title and he and HOFer McAdoo (NBA MVP and 3 times in a row scoring champ) were a big part of the Lakers success with Worthy, Magic, Scott, Cooper (one of the best defenders ever, multiple all NBA 1st team defender and a DPOY).
As were Rodman, Kukoc, Pippen, Kerr, Harper
or Cartwright, Pippen, Grant, Armstrong and Paxson
MJ won 3 str8 without Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr. Harper. So those others pale in comparison to what others have even Kareem, Kobe, Magic, etc.
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
Pssst: Oscar last year was 74 (not 71, when the Bucks won the Championship). Also, the Bucks won 59 games in 74 and just 38 the next year (after he retired).
Go get me a sammich kiddo.
oh that's correct, he retired 3 seasons later. that changes absolutely nothing.
so although my memory failed me that means that oscar wasnt indeed old and orlando woolridge didnt score what he did in his prime and jordan couldnt get out of the first round.
good job pointing out the minutia but not doing anything about the actual point. kareem got a ring outside of the lakers and jordan couldnt make the playoffs.
1994 showed jordans true worth when pete myers filled in for baldy on short notice, lol. enjoy that fact.
but they got bounced and who usually won the finals MVP when they won it all? and Kukoc was given the last shot over Pippen (who refused to go back in the game) yeah!!!
can you point to a team that loses an over 30 ppg scorer with zero warning that only had a two game drop off?
town bidness wrote:
wait.. oscar was something to behold in his last year but orlando in 85 with over 20 ppg in the playoffs was inadequate?
hmm... that's seems inconsistent doesnt it? jordan fans always indirectly make pippen look so much better.
Pssst: Oscar last year was 74 (not 71, when the Bucks won the Championship). Also, the Bucks won 59 games in 74 and just 38 the next year (after he retired).
Go get me a sammich kiddo.
oh that's correct, he retired 3 seasons later. that changes absolutely nothing.
so although my memory failed me that means that oscar wasnt indeed old and orlando woolridge didnt score what he did in his prime and jordan couldnt get out of the first round.
good job pointing out the minutia but not doing anything about the actual point. kareem got a ring outside of the lakers and jordan couldnt make the playoffs.
1994 showed jordans true worth when pete myers filled in for baldy on short notice, lol. enjoy that fact.
Your right, it did.
They went from 3 time champs to 2nd round fodder despite adding Steve Kerr AND the best player from Europe.
And how did the following seasons prospects look for the Bulls before MJ returned.....were they even on playoff pace...?
town bidness wrote:
oh that's correct, he retired 3 seasons later. that changes absolutely nothing.
so although my memory failed me that means that oscar wasnt indeed old and orlando woolridge didnt score what he did in his prime and jordan couldnt get out of the first round.
good job pointing out the minutia but not doing anything about the actual point. kareem got a ring outside of the lakers and jordan couldnt make the playoffs.
1994 showed jordans true worth when pete myers filled in for baldy on short notice, lol. enjoy that fact.
but they got bounced and who usually won the finals MVP when they won it all? and Kukoc was given the last shot over Pippen (who refused to go back in the game) yeah!!!
can you point to a team that loses an over 30 ppg scorer with zero warning that only had a two game drop off?
Only UNeducated fans believe that regular season records = playoff success... and FTR the Bulls' regular season success (in 94) is a testament to Scottie Pippen's greatness, which is why I've always said prime Pippen --> Kobe.
Glad you agree.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
Pssst: Oscar last year was 74 (not 71, when the Bucks won the Championship). Also, the Bucks won 59 games in 74 and just 38 the next year (after he retired).
Go get me a sammich kiddo.
oh that's correct, he retired 3 seasons later. that changes absolutely nothing.
so although my memory failed me that means that oscar wasnt indeed old and orlando woolridge didnt score what he did in his prime and jordan couldnt get out of the first round.
It changes everything because 71 Oscar was vastly superior to 85 Woolridge... and only a nincompoop would argue otherwise.
one could say oscar was a better player but vastly? hyperbole.
what difference does it make? kareem won a RING with that old oscar.
jordan got trounced.. damn near swept out of the playoffs by terry cummins, sidney moncrief and the fucking bucks.
Smelters wrote:
but they got bounced and who usually won the finals MVP when they won it all? and Kukoc was given the last shot over Pippen (who refused to go back in the game) yeah!!!
can you point to a team that loses an over 30 ppg scorer with zero warning that only had a two game drop off?
Only UNeducated fans believe that regular season records = playoff success... and FTR the Bulls' regular season success (in 94) is a testament to Scottie Pippen's greatness, which is why I've always said prime Pippen --> Kobe.
Glad you agree.
oh yes.. of course the regular season dont matter unless you are talking about the 96 team... THEN the regular season matters right? wasnt it just a couple days ago you were touting how that was one of the greatest teams ever?
can you answer the question? i cant think of a single instance where that scenario has been duplicated.... can you? lol.
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
Pssst: Oscar last year was 74 (not 71, when the Bucks won the Championship). Also, the Bucks won 59 games in 74 and just 38 the next year (after he retired).
Go get me a sammich kiddo.
oh that's correct, he retired 3 seasons later. that changes absolutely nothing.
so although my memory failed me that means that oscar wasnt indeed old and orlando woolridge didnt score what he did in his prime and jordan couldnt get out of the first round.
good job pointing out the minutia but not doing anything about the actual point. kareem got a ring outside of the lakers and jordan couldnt make the playoffs.
1994 showed jordans true worth when pete myers filled in for baldy on short notice, lol. enjoy that fact.
Your right, it did.
They went from 3 time champs to 2nd round fodder despite adding Steve Kerr AND the best player from Europe.
And how did the following seasons prospects look for the Bulls before MJ returned.....were they even on playoff pace...?
i'll ask you the same question i asked tdk and he wont answer directly.
"can you point to a team that loses an over 30 ppg scorer with zero warning that only had a two game drop off?"
town bidness wrote:
oh that's correct, he retired 3 seasons later. that changes absolutely nothing.
so although my memory failed me that means that oscar wasnt indeed old and orlando woolridge didnt score what he did in his prime and jordan couldnt get out of the first round.
It changes everything because 71 Oscar was vastly superior to 85 Woolridge... and only a nincompoop would argue otherwise.
one could say oscar was a better player but vastly? hyperbole.
what difference does it make? kareem won a RING with that old oscar.
jordan got trounced.. damn near swept out of the playoffs by terry cummins, sidney moncrief and the fucking bucks.
lol. more excuses please.
Any BB fan with an IQ higher than a grapefruit would say 71 Oscar ----> 85 Woolridge (who was a cocaine addict at the time, and brought absolutely nothing whatsoever to the team except scoring). 71 Oscar scored just as much, was a vastly superior playmaker, superior rebounder, and better defender.
Yes... 71 Oscar was VASTLY superior to 85 Woolridge.
What difference does it make...?
I dunno, you tell me. You're the one who brought up Woolridge. Now yer backpedaling, eh?
Last edited by thedangerouskitchen on Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
