I submit to AG the following facts that suggest MJ's 6 Rings >>> Russell's 11 Rings

[thedangerouskitchen]

Michael Jordan's six (6) Championships are >>> than Russell's 11 based on the following factual information:

Total number of Playoff series Wins
Jordan: 24 to win 6 Championships
Russell: 25 to win 11 Championships
Advantage: HUGE to Jordan

Number of playoff opponents swept
Jordan: 9 out of 24
Russell: 2 out of 25
Advantage: HUGE to Jordan

Number of times taken to "Game 7"
Jordan: 2 out of 24
Russell: 10 out of 25
Advantage: HUGE to Jordan

Total number of HOFERS on Championship teams
Jordan: 19 (6 teams = 3 HOFERS on average)
Russell: 67 (11 teams = 6 HOFERS on average)

...and

Total number of HOFERS on Opponents' teams
Jordan: 35 (over 24 series = 1.5 HOFERS on average)
Russell: 72 ( over 25 series = 3 HOFERS on average)
Advantage: Wash

Ladies and Gentlemen of AG (and you too artman - lol), I believe the evidence presented herein makes it crystal clear, obvious and irrefutable that Jordan's 6 Championships are >>>>> Russell's 11... which of course means that not only is Mike the GOAT "player" but now, after the facts are revealed, he's also the GOAT "winner".



Discuss how this makes you feel...

[Robceltsfan]

You really typed all that?

[elartman1973]

Imagine giving a shit and arguing about it fmdaily and incesantly as if its important to anything as if you think you can change anyones mind any more than they can change yours

Tdk and bush are the saddest example of this bafoonery

[vcsgrizzfan]

Twisting yourself into a pretzel to try to pretend 6-15 is greater than 11-13 will never make it so.

And in college, 2 NCAA titles to 1, and as the undisputed best player on both.

And in high school, 2 state titles to 0.

So, in summary, Russell shits on MJ when it comes to winning. Period.

[elartman1973]

Grizz is also a sad example of this bafoonery

[Bush4Ever.]

Artman ate more than 11 onion rings last night for dinner.

[AlaskaHawks]

TIL winning fewer times is better! Wow!

[Havlicekstealsit]

No 18 minute Newsmax vid for you to upload about it huh

[thedangerouskitchen]

So no objections raised with the facts presented in the OP must mean a unanimous consensus: Jordan is the GOAT player and the GOAT winner.

Now that that's been established, I guess the next logical question is... who comes in at #2 (ie; player and winning combo)?

Jabbar seems about right. Anyone else have a shot? Duncan? Magic? Kobe? What about Hondo even, considering his two-way dominance as a player and 8 rings (two without Russ)?

[Robceltsfan]

LOL….TheDrunkKid is seething that nobody paid any attention to his idiocy.

[Alex_Murphy]

I’ll accept your evidence TDK and grant your motion to dismiss.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I’ll accept your evidence TDK and grant your motion to dismiss.

Thank you my good man.

Just of of curiosity, who would you rank #2?

[Alex_Murphy]

I’ll accept your evidence TDK and grant your motion to dismiss.

Thank you my good man.

Just of of curiosity, who would you rank #2?

Kobe. Duh.

[thedangerouskitchen]

LOL….TheDrunkKid is seething that nobody paid any attention to his idiocy.

But you responded twice already doe...

No one can refute the POWERFUL factual evidence presented in the OP... that's why no rebuttals.

Oh sure 11 > 6 in a strictly "raw number" comparison, but when you dig deeper (sort of like those "made up" stats you, bush and grizz throw around - only these numbers aren't made up), you can't help realize that 11 in 25 (series) is much MUCH easier to accomplish than having to win 24 for 6.

Put another way: If MJ needed only 2.2 series' Wins to get a Ring, he'd own 13 Championships. Now couple that with Jordan's irrefutable superiority in terms of opponent sweeps and being rarely pushed to the limit (ie; Game 7), and MJ's Dynasty is not just better it utterly destroys Russell's.

...and that's not meant to diminish or insult Bill's accomplishments of course. It just is what it is: Apples to apples Jordan >> Winner based on advanced analytics withOut the guesswork.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I’ll accept your evidence TDK and grant your motion to dismiss.

Thank you my good man.

Just of of curiosity, who would you rank #2?

Kobe. Duh.

Solid pick.

[vcsgrizzfan]

In 13 seasons, Bill Russell lost two playoff series. His record in 29 playoff series is 27-2. In one of those losses, his second season, he had a knee injury missed a game and was not his usual effectiveness and lost to the same team he had beaten in the finals the prior season. But, still 27-2 and likely 28-1 without that injury.

Jordan lost 6 series in the playoffs and missed the playoffs entirely twice. He had 5 seasons where his team was below .500 but we will only count 4 of those since in one of those seasons, he only played 18 games.

Russell won championships in 11 of 13 NBA seasons, 2 college championships at a non basketball school (USF) which makes it that much more amazing and two state high school championships. Missing playoffs isn't in his vocabulary. Being under .500 isn't in his vocabulary.

When Russell was winning those 27 playoff series, 11 of them were in finals, not against first and second round chumps like many of MJ's series victories. He beat Wilt Chamberlain 7 of 8 times, and was undefeated against the combination of Elgin Baylor and Jerry West on the Lakers, beating them six times including once in his final season, when the Lakers also had Wilt. Russell beat Wilt like a drum and even more so, the Lakers. When Bill retired, straight down the toilet and in the lottery.

Russell almost never lost, no matter what. It is what it is.

A summary:

MJ

Series won/loss: 30 and 7. Winning percentage 81.1%
Times missed playoffs: 2
Times below .500: 6
Total NBA Championships: 6
Total college championships: 1
Total high school championships: 0
Total championships: 7

Russell

Series won/loss: 27 and 2. Winning percentage 93.1%
Times missed playoffs: 0
Times below .500: 0
Total NBA championships: 11
Total college championships: 2
Total high school championships: 2
Total championships: 15

What do you know? Russell wins every category in a LANDSLIDE.

[elmerjfudd]

In 21 years of playing basketball, Russell led his team to an unprecedented 18 championships.

[vcsgrizzfan]

In 21 years of playing basketball, Russell led his team to an unprecedented 18 championships.

Not quite. He won 15 championships, but in only 19 seasons. He played varsity high school in only his junior and senior seasons and won state championships both seasons. So 13 NBA seasons, 4 college seasons and two high school seasons for 19 in total. Still, 15 out of 19 isn't bad.

Edit: Bill only played 3 college seasons and won 2 titles. So, it 15 out of 18 seasons where he finished with titles.

[Bush4Ever.]

Kareem is the premier high school/college winner.

Russell is the premier NBA winner.

Jordan bends the knee to both in terms of winning.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Nice try, but... next.