Bill Russell's over-rated Defense... ??

[thedangerouskitchen]

Here's the HOF Center competition Russell faced, along with their career PPG average vs. what they averaged going up against Russell, the (alleged) greatest Defender of all-time, ever, hands-down, bar-none:

Embry: 12.5-PPG career / 13.5-PPG vs. Russell
Wilt: 30 / 30
Kerr: 14 / 12
Bellamy: 20 / 24
Lovellette: 17 / 18
Beaty: 16 / 17
Thurmond: 15 / 16
Reed: 19 / 17
Unseld: 11 / 11

It would appear that the "legit" talent of the era had no problem whatsoever scoring against Russell's defense. In fact, just about every guy scored the same OR more with Russell defending them than they did against the rest of the league, which is very strange to see because if we listen to crusty old think-they-know-it-all geezers they will tell us that Bill Russell's Defense was SO VASTLY SUPERIOR to ANY player in NBA history... and that ONLY Russell's Defensive impact is on-par with elite Scorers; no other defender in the history of the game is even close.

Hmmm...

It would appear that the facts say otherwise... so it seems these crusty old farts are just blowing a bunch of hot air, living in the glory days perhaps?



Discuss

[kobeunderbite]

Don't you get bored of this?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Don't you get bored of this?

Bored of what... discussing hoops on a hoops board?



Should I start racist, name-calling threads like you do, instead?

[kobeunderbite]

Don't you get bored of this?

Bored of what

Reliving the same thread over and over again.

[Bush4Ever]

1. PPG means nothing independent of FG percentage.

2. Especially for interior defensive players, *team/help* defense is where most of the action happens.

3. Russell has about 50 percent more defensive win shares than Kareem, despite playing far fewer years:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (one would assume this happened for a reason)

That's about all the attention I can give you on this one big guy, but I wish you the best in your question to cover up your lack of friends and a sex life by trolling online.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Today I learned...

Wayne Embry >>> Bill Russell.

I think.

[thedangerouskitchen]

1. PPG means nothing independent of FG percentage.

2. Especially for interior defensive players, *team/help* defense is where most of the action happens.

3. Russell has about 50 percent more defensive win shares than Kareem, despite playing far fewer years:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (one would assume this happened for a reason)

That's about all the attention I can give you on this one big guy, but I wish you the best in your question to cover up your lack of friends and a sex life by trolling online.

1) FG% in Russell's era???? ... back then 40%-45% made you elite - FURTHER proof of Russell's over-rated Defense, the fact that he was guarding extremely limited Offensive players.

2) *Team/help* Defense eh? So the greatest Defense player of all-time, hands-down, ever, bar none was a "helper"?

3) Who cares about Jabbar, moron... this thread is about Russell's Defense.

Weak sauce, bushy... very weak.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Today I learned...

Wayne Embry >>> Bill Russell.

I think.

That's your main problem...

[Havlicekstealsit]

Why don't you just re-title the thread "bait for vcgrizzfan" because that's all you want here.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Why don't you just re-title the thread "bait for vcgrizzfan" because that's all you want here.

Not only grizz but there are a few others iving in the glory days, who terribly over-rate Russell's defense... bush being one of them, and we all saw how quickly and easily I crushed his 'argument'.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Number 1 rated defense 12 of 13 seasons. Number 2 rated defense the other year.

Before Russell - bottom 3 5 consecutive years. After Russell, 11 ppg more given up and went from championship team to lottery.

That's all you're getting Glory Days.

Have fun.

[elmouse03]

Tdk trying to get grizz riled up

[vcsgrizzfan]

Tdk trying to get grizz riled up

He can't. I pity TDK, aka Glory Days.

This stuff really matters to him. He has a vicarious life, lived through teams and people who don't know or care whether he's alive or dead, and he doesn't recognize how unstable that is.

[AlaskaHawks]

Tdk trying to get grizz riled up

I think you meant he's trying to Russell his Jimmies.

[thatoothpick45]

Overrated is one word.

[vcsgrizzfan]

1. PPG means nothing independent of FG percentage.

2. Especially for interior defensive players, *team/help* defense is where most of the action happens.

3. Russell has about 50 percent more defensive win shares than Kareem, despite playing far fewer years:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (one would assume this happened for a reason)

That's about all the attention I can give you on this one big guy, but I wish you the best in your question to cover up your lack of friends and a sex life by trolling online.

The Celtics also played at a crazy pace, recognizing the strength of their team was defense.

I haven't bothered to try to research it conclusively, but nobody has come close to the level of defensive rating dominance they had. First in the league 12 of his 13 years and second the other.

I feel pretty sure nothing like that will ever be seen again.

[Da Stars.]

Grizz, he has been fishing for you for over 90 minutes. You are one smart northern pike. Or is it muskie. And you are far to bony to be a Walleye.

[elmouse03]

Im mad at tdk now as he forgot to put Pettit's numbers vs Russell.

[LNS]

He'd be a poor man's Mutombo in today's league.

[Macrotus]

Russell did have a big advantage through his career though...poor outside shooting + able to camp inside the block for eternity is any bigman's dream.